Jain founder doesn’t believe 2nd jhana is possible
“saddahasi tvaṃ, gahapati, samaṇassa gotamassa— | “Householder, do you have faith in the ascetic Gotama’s (The Buddha's) claim that |
atthi avitakko avicāro samādhi, atthi vitakkavicārānaṃ nirodho”ti? | there is a state of undistractible-lucidity without directing-thought and evaluation; that there is the cessation of directing-thought and evaluation?” |
“Na khvāhaṃ ettha, bhante, bhagavato saddhāya gacchāmi. | “Sir, in this case I don’t rely on faith in the Buddha’s claim that |
Atthi avitakko avicāro samādhi, atthi vitakkavicārānaṃ nirodho”ti. | there is a state of undistractible-lucidity without directing-thought and evaluation; that there is the cessation of directing-thought and evaluation.” |
Evaṃ vutte, nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto ulloketvā etadavoca: | When he said this, Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta looked up at his assembly and said: |
“idaṃ bhavanto passantu, yāva ujuko cāyaṃ citto gahapati, yāva asaṭho cāyaṃ citto gahapati, yāva amāyāvī cāyaṃ citto gahapati, vātaṃ vā so jālena bādhetabbaṃ maññeyya, yo vitakkavicāre nirodhetabbaṃ maññeyya, sakamuṭṭhinā vā so gaṅgāya sotaṃ āvāretabbaṃ maññeyya, yo vitakkavicāre nirodhetabbaṃ maññeyyā”ti. | “See, good sirs, how straightforward this householder Citta is! He’s not devious or deceitful at all. To imagine that you can stop directing-thought and evaluation would be like imagining that you can catch the wind in a net, or dam the Ganges river with your own hand.” |
If you compare my correct translation and interpretation above, with Sujato's SN 41.8:
“Householder, do you have faith in the ascetic Gotama’s claim that there is a state of immersion without placing the mind and keeping it connected; that there is the cessation of placing the mind and keeping it connected?
B. Sujato's description of second jhana makes no sense for Buddhists, and even less sense for a non Buddhist! In order for both Buddhists and non-Buddhists alike to understand B. Sujato's redefined jhana and redefined vitakka (thinking) as "placing the mind", he would need to borrow Buddhaghosa (Vism. author) and Ajahn Brahm's 🔗vitakka time machine and travel back to the Buddha in 450 BCE and kindly inform Nigantha, and all the Buddhist disciples, "hey by the way, when the Buddha uses the word "thinking" in first jhana, what he really means is "placing the mind"). How do you transmit coherent sacred religious oral teaching for 2500 years that requires a time traveler from the future to redefine important basic words like "up", "down", "thinking"?
Nigantha doesn't think 2nd jhana is possible, but he believes first jhana with thinking is possible
Let's look at this part of his statement again:
Evaṃ vutte, nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto ulloketvā etadavoca: | When he said this, Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta looked up at his assembly and said: |
“idaṃ bhavanto passantu, yāva ujuko cāyaṃ citto gahapati, yāva asaṭho cāyaṃ citto gahapati, yāva amāyāvī cāyaṃ citto gahapati, vātaṃ vā so jālena bādhetabbaṃ maññeyya, yo vitakkavicāre nirodhetabbaṃ maññeyya, sakamuṭṭhinā vā so gaṅgāya sotaṃ āvāretabbaṃ maññeyya, yo vitakkavicāre nirodhetabbaṃ maññeyyā”ti. | “See, good sirs, how straightforward this householder Citta is! He’s not devious or deceitful at all. To imagine that you can stop directing-thought and evaluation [of second jhana] would be like imagining that you can catch the wind in a net, or dam the Ganges river with your own hand.” |
Now the sutta doesn't explicitly say that Nigantha says, "2nd jhana is impossible, first jhana is possible", but from logical deduction, that is exactly what he's saying, or if you want to be strict, he only says second jhana (and higher) is impossible, but he doesn't say first jhana is impossible.
Now if Nigantha is using the words vitakka and vicara as non-buddhists do in the above passage, then of course he is using it in the sense of "thinking", and not Buddhaghosa and B. Sujato's redefined vitakka. So essentially Nigantha is saying first jhana with thinking is doable, possible, feasible, by buddhists and non buddhists alike.
Another important detail that most people don't notice:
The standard first jhana formula doesn't even mention the keywords -
'samadhi', (undistractible lucidity, concentration), or
'ekodi/ekaggata' (singular focus, singular preoccupation of mind).
Those two special words are reserved for 2nd jhana. This is not to say that first jhana is not a proper samadhi, but it sure seems to imply that the Buddha placed a special status on the ability to stop thoughts, and designated that with special terms like 'samadhi', 'ekaggata', 'noble silence' (ariya tumhi bhava).
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