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why does 16aps breath meditation only supress vitakka, and not vicara?


Re: detailed audit showing even in Vism. vitakka in 31 body parts and first jhana means 'thinking', not 'initial applica

Post by frank k » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:46 am
That's a tough passage to understand, but I don't really understand how that supports your case.
Volo wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:27 am
...So, Vimuttimagga is indeed in a good accordance with Vism in treating vitakka, and clearly distinguishes vitakka as jhāna factor from vitakka as thinking.
definition of discursive:
1.
digressing from subject to subject.

Here's the passage again, expanded a little so you can see the context better. It's explaining how 4sp satipatthana fulfills 7sb awakening factors, and why anapana is said to remove vitakka (discursive thinking). Clearly is talking about MN 118, the latter part of the sutta.
THE SEVEN ENLIGHTENMENT FACTORS
Q. How are the seven enlightenment factors fulfilled through the practice of the four foundations of mindfulness?
A. If the yogin practises the (four) foundations of mindfulness, he is able to abide non-confused in mindfulness; this is called the enlightenment factor of mindfulness. That yogin, abiding in mindfulness, investigates subjection to ill, impermanence and phenomena; this is called the enlightenment factor of inquiry into states. Inquiring into states (dhammd) thus, he strives earnestly without slackening; this is called the enlightenment factor of exertion. Developing exertion, he arouses joy (PÄ«ti) that is clean; this is called the enlightenment factor of joy (PÄ«ti). Through the mind being full of joy (PÄ«ti), his body and mind are endowed with calm; this is called the enlightenment factor of calm. Through calmness his body attains to ease and his mind is possessed of concentration; this is called the enlightenment factor of concentration. Owing to concentration, the mind acquires equanimity; this is called the enlightenment factor of equanimity. Thus because of the practice of the four foundations of mindfulness, the seven enlightenment factors are fulfilled.

Q. How are freedom and wisdom fulfilled through the practice of the seven enlightenment factors ?
The yogin who has practised the seven enlightenment factors much, gains in a moment the wisdom of the Path and the Fruit of freedom. Thus because of the practice of the seven enlightenment factors, wisdom and freedom are fulfilled.
A. All formations are endowed with directed thought (vitakka) according to planes.
Q. That being so, why is only directed thought (vitakka) suppressed in mindfulness of respiration, and not the other (vicara) ?
A. It is used here in a different sense. Discursiveness is a hindrance to meditation, jhāna. In this sense, it is suppressed. Why is air contact pleasant ? Because it calms the mind. It is comparable to the soothing of a heavenly musician's (gandhabba's) mind with sweet sounds. By this discursive thinking is suppressed. And again, it is like a person walking along the bank of a river. His mind is collected, is directed towards one object and does not wander. Therefore in mindfulness of respiration, the suppression of discursive thinking is taught.
Mindfulness of respiration has ended.
What this passage is talking about (the part Volo is questioning), is the that vitakka in first jhana, being somewhat discursive in nature, can change meditation topics as needs arise (see AN 8.63). For example, one could use vitakka to switch from anapana to metta, to 4sp.
Since we are now fixed (appana in the original sense of the word) on the topic of anapana breath meditation, and are happily absorbed in first jhana, there is no longer a need for vitakka to discursively consider and switch to another meditation topic. But vicara is still active in first jhana of anapanasati, to consider/ponder/evaluate subtle aspects of the breath that are relevant to once perception of breath (saƱƱa) in first jhana.

The simile at the end of the passage, which Volo neglected to include, makes all this clear. It's not that the ability to think 'discursively' (change meditation topics) is impossible in anapana first jhana, it's just that the nature of anapana and kayagata, is that by one's attention pleasurably engaged in observing physical processesses, there is no desire or need to change meditation topics.



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