Tuesday, May 17, 2022

🔗📝 collection of notes on MN 56


4👑☸ → MN‍ → MN 56 

● MN 56 - 🔗🔊 40m, Upāli: name of lay follower:
    Nigantha of jains says body action more important determinant of kamma. Buddha says mental. Highlights:
    MN 561 - (Jain leader explains 3 types of action: bodily, verbal, mental)
        MN 561.1 – (3 types of action distinct from each other)
        MN 561.2 - (Jain leader says bodily action is most potent of 3, Buddha is incredulous)
        MN 562.2 - (Buddha says mental action is most potent of 3)
        MN 566.1 – (Upali affirms Jain leader is right, Buddha is wrong)
        MN 566.2 – (Buddha establishes ground rules for fair debate)
        MN 566.11 – (Buddha’s example #1 showing Jain contradiction: dying and rebirth caused by mental action instead of physical one)
        MN 566.12 – (example #2: accidentally killing bugs, intentional makes it blameworthy)
        MN 566.13 – (example #3: evil yogi with psychic power can kill with mind/mano, without bodily karma)
        MN 566.14 – (example #4: wilderness of some areas had become that way because of evil mental actions of some hermits)
    MN 567 – (for the 4th time, Buddha points out Upali’s contradiction violates rules of fair debate)
        MN 567.1 – (Upali confesses to Buddha: “Sir, you had me at hello, with the first simile.”)
        MN 567.2 – (Upali coverts, takes refuge in Buddha)
        MN 567.3 – (Buddha advises Upali to consider carefully before converting)
        MN 567.4 – (Buddha advises Upali to continue offering support to Jains)
    MN 568 – (Buddha leads Upali to Dharma eye and stream entry with talk on gradual training)
        MN 568.1 – (Upali attains stream entry with a sufficient first jhāna, free of 5 hindrances, hearing and thinking while it happened)
    MN 569 – (Jains hear about Upali’s conversion and are shocked)
        MN 569.5 – (Upali makes Jains and Jain leader sit in a visitor area for meal, and Upali himself occupies high seat of honor)
        MN 569.6 – (Jain leader criticizes Upali for getting converted ‘by magic’, Upali says it would benefit whole world to get converted)
        MN 569.7 – (Upali makes simile Comparing Jain doctrine to monkey abuse)
        MN 569.21 – (Jain leader, Nātaputta, spews hot blood)


MN 56 Sujato rewriting dictionary for jhāna terms for 'thinking'

MN 56 Sujato rewriting dictionary for jhāna terms for 'thinking'

 The term we're interested in, Ananugatantarassa,  from MN 56 verse section describing mind of Buddha in jhāna.

Bodhi has:

He is the Noble One, developed in mind,
who has gained the goal and expounds the truth;
Endowed with mindfulness and penetrative insight,
he leans neither forwards nor back;597
Free from perturbation, attained to mastery:
The Blessed One is he, and I am his disciple.

He has fared rightly and abides in meditation,
inwardly undefiled, in purity perfect;
He is independent and altogether fearless,598
living secluded, attained to the summit;


Of the noble, developed-in-mind, attainment-attained explainer—

mindful, clear-seeing, not bent forward, not bent back,

unperturbed, mastery-attained:

Of that Blessed One, I’m a disciple.

Of the path-completed, absorbed-in-jhāna, uninfluenced-within, pure,

independent, fearless, living-secluded, attained-to-the-summit,

crossed-over one leading others across:

Of that Blessed One, I’m a disciple.

Narada has:

Of him who is noble, is developed,
has attained to advantage, mindful, intuitive,
free from like and dislike,
is devoid of craving and has attained mastery,
of that Blessed One am I a disciple.

Of him who has fared well, is absorbed in meditation,
independent, is pure, is unattached, is to be abandoned,
is secluded, has attained to pre-eminence,
has crossed (the Ocean of Sorrow) and
causes others to cross,
of that Blessed One am I a disciple.

IB Horner has:

Of the pure one, whose self is developed, who has attained the attainable, the expounder,
The one with recollection, whose vision is clear, not bent on passion, without hatred,
Impassible, attained to mastery, of this Lord the disciple am I.

Of him who has gone to the highest, the meditator, inwardly unobstructed, cleansed,
The unattached, the unaiming, the aloof, the attainer of the highest,
The crossed over, the helper across, of this Lord the disciple am I.

Sujato 2022-may 

The noble one, evolved,Ariyassa bhāvitattassa,he has attained the goal and explains it;Pattipattassa veyyākaraṇassa;he is mindful, discerning,Satimato vipassissa,neither leaning forward nor pulling back,Anabhinatassa no apanatassa;he’s unstirred, attained to mastery:Anejassa vasippattassa,he is the Buddha, and I am his disciple.Bhagavato tassa sāvakohamasmi.

He has risen up, he practices absorption,Samuggatassa jhāyissa, Variant: Samuggatassa → sammaggatassa (bj, sya-all, pts1ed)not following inner thoughts, he is pure,Ananugatantarassa suddhassa;independent, and fearless;Asitassa hitassa, Variant: hitassa → appahīnassa (bj, pts1ed); appabhītassa (sya-all)secluded, he has reached the peak,Pavivittassa aggappattassa;crossed over, he helps others across:Tiṇṇassa tārayantassa,he is the Buddha, and I am his disciple.Bhagavato tassa sāvakohamasmi.


From Digital Pāḷi Dictionary:

an-anugat-antara = adj. undefiled inside; internally unafflicted. [na + anugata + antara]

antara = adj. inside; inner; internal; within. [anta + ra]

It would be good for Sujato to give an explanatory note for his translation choice, how the Buddha's jhāna according to Sujato, unlike the other translators and normal Pāli dictionaries, means "not following inner thoughts". 

The several other translators translate the term with some generality and vagueness as to what is 'not followed', unlike Sujato who seems to have special knowledge that it's not 'defilement' or 'affliction' that is being 'followed', but just 'thought' (whether negative or positive or connected to Dharma).

Perhaps to match the special Sujato dictionary where he redefines first jhāna's vitakka as "placing the mind" (i.e. first jhāna is a frozen stupor devoid of thought capability)? 

It looks like Sujato fixed his translation of anenja (imperturbability) here in 2022.

From his 2018 translation, he wrongly had that as 'still':

Anejassa vasippattassa,
he’s still, attained to mastery:
Bhagavato tassa sāvakohamasmi.
he is the Buddha, and I am his disciple.

A  sure sign you (should) know your interpretation of jhāna and vitakka is wrong, is when you inconsistently and incoherently translate it in different suttas.

example, here in AN 1.583 it's a first and second jhāna context and he accidentally translates vitakka correctly as 'thinking': https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2019/12/b-sujato-accidentally-translated.html

In AN 5.139, where there's a clear connection between enduring unpleasant stimuli via the 5 sense doors  in samādhi to khamo and anenja , Sujato wrongly translates samādhi in AN 5.139 as 'stillness', whereas he normally translates samādhi as 'immersion'. 

When you can't consistently translate vitakka in first jhāna, samādhi, anenja, you probably have a wrong interpretation of jhāna. That's the thought process that should be going through the mind of an objective translator.

Apparently, Sujato translated suttas while he was in his special version of MN 56 jhāna, which does not 'follow inner thought'. Evidently,  he was in a frozen trance of 'stillness' when he was validating his translation for consistency and coherence.

With that kind of 'jhāna', 'no following inner thoughts', how do the scores of sutta occurrences where someone thinking about Dharma WHILE listening to Dharma spontaneously attain stream entry?

Such as this very sutta in question, ,where Upali in MN 56, attain stream entry in an unspecified samādhi (but described as free of 5 hindrances and joyful)?  

How do you attain stream entry WHILE hearing Dharma if you're in a first jhāna with no thinking allowed?

Sujato never explains this mysterious type of rule breaking 'jhana' that is not 'first jhana' that happens with spontaneous stream entry while listening to and THINKING about Dharma, frequently in the suttas.

Sunday, May 15, 2022

Digital Pāḷi Dictionary - highlight a word anywhere, any app on your windows pc screen, hit control c twice, and it looks it up!

 This is an email I got, reprinting announcement. It's not a finished product, still a work in progress.

That said, it's so useful you're going to wonder how you got along without it before.
Shows pāḷi and sanksrit roots, grammar declension tables, lots more.
I still use other tools, DPR, etc., but this tool is so convenient, so easy to trigger it's my first resort looking up a word.
The golden dictionary app it's built on, you can also add dictionaries for other languages, and it searches wikipedia as well.


Digital Pāḷi Dictionary

Dear Venerable monastics, professors and Pāḷi nerds,

I am happy to say that I now have permission from my preceptor to share DPD more widely, under the proviso that it is a work in progress.

So please feel free to share it with your fellow monastics, colleagues, students, Dhamma friends and anyone else who may benefit from its use. 

Here is your monthly update. You can download the latest .zip directly or always get the latest version from this page on Github.

Detailed instructions on how to install or update can be found on the website.

More detailed information about the various features can be found here.

A changelog of all this month's updates and developments can be seen here.

Anything else you need to know about DPD can be found on the website.

Wishing you a most auspicious Vesākha full moon day. 


Ab Vb 12, Jhāna vibhanga, where does it say 5 sense perception disappears in 4 jhānas?

Ab Vb 12, Jhāna vibhanga, where does it say 5 sense perception disappears in 4 jhānas?

Looking at base of infinite space, the patigha sañña is especially illuminating.

1.15.3 – paṭigha-sañña: perceptions from the 5 sense doors

“Paṭighasaññānaṃ atthaṅgamā”ti tattha katamā paṭighasaññā? Rūpasaññā saddasaññā … pe … phoṭṭhabbasaññā—imā vuccanti “paṭighasaññāyo”. Imā paṭighasaññāyo santā honti samitā vūpasantā atthaṅgatā abbhatthaṅgatā appitā byappitā sositā visositā byantīkatā. Tena vuccati “paṭighasaññānaṃ atthaṅgamā”ti.
“Terminating perceptions of (sense) impingement” means: Therein what are perceptions of (sense) impingement? Visible (object) perception, audible (object) perception, Intermediate sense perceptions. tangible (object) perception. These are called perceptions of (sense) impingement. These perceptions of (sense) impingement are calmed, tranquillized, inhibited, terminated, vanished, destroyed, well destroyed, withered, well withered, abrogated. Therefore this is called “terminating perceptions of (sense) impingement”.

So if it's saying in base of infinite space, one does not perceive sensory impingement at the 5 sense doors, then it means one

does or can perceive sensory impingement at the 5 sense doors prior to that, in the 4 jhānas.

Looking through the 4 jhāna Vb 12 carefully, I see it redefines kāya as body of mind, and defines sukha as mental pleasure instead of physical, but it doesn't actually say anywhere the 5 senses are disconnected. So even though Ab is trying to redefine 4 jhānas as a purely mental experience, it doesn't actually say it's not possible to hear sounds, feel mosquito bites, etc., from the 4 jhānas.

Also, with Vb 12 I see nothing about appanā samādhi, upacara, no mentally frozen states one has to emerge from. Vitakka, vicāra, are all verbal thoughts.

Can you guys confirm this understanding is correct?

The kind of all mental 4 jhānas Vb12 is talking about, is more like there are 3 people talking to me at once, I don't pay attention to 2 of them and only hear what one of them is saying. A mosquito just bit me, but my attention is on the 1 person is saying, so I didn't perceive the mosquito bite at the body contact sense door, not that I CAN'T perceive sound and mosquito bites.

But this is different than the four jhānas of Vism., that says I'm in a state where I'm not capable of hearing sounds or feeling mosquito bites because the mind is disconnected from the 5 senses completely.


Maybe the answer doesn't exist in Vb 12, or the earliest strata of canonical Abhidhamma.

Let's open the the question then, where in Vism., Abhidhamma, Commentaries, does it actually say the mind is divorced from the 5 senses for the 4 jhānas, which are percipient of rūpa?

In the suttas, that would be in the latter stages of 8 abhibhaayatana, 8 vimokkha, formless attainments, maybe animitta samadhi.

I did a digital search in Vism., and they don't talk about 8 abhibhaayatana, 8 vimokkha, other than in passing as kasina practice for 8 abhibhaayatana as far as I can tell. That's highly suspicious, for many reasons. Another thread, another time, so just to stay on OP,

Vism. claims the rūpa of 4 jhānas one percipient of, is only the mind created visual kasina one uses to enter VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhāna, to differentiate from sutta jhāna).

appanā and upacara samādhi newly created terms in LBT abhidhamma, doesn't seem to be in Vb 12 and perhaps 7 books of canonical abhidhamma.

In KN Petakopadesa and Vimuttimagga, appanā had a different meaning for 4 jhānas. There, it simply meant, one has fixity in staying on the meditation topic, that the purity of first jhāna for example, was that it was never interrupted by any 5 hindrances.

In Vism.., appanā samādhi means one enters a frozen stupor where it's not possible for the mind to investigate anything, until reemerging later.

So does this state mean the mind is divorced from the 5 senses, or like my example in OP, those 5 senses are active and perceivable, but one is simply so focused on the visual kasina it doesn't notice sounds and mosquito bites?

I know in practice, for example the pa uak tradition, they maintain that 4 jhānas has mind divorced from 5 senses, like in the formless attainments.

So where in Vism. does it explain that? (if it does?) Where does it say appanā samādhi means mind divorced from 5 senses?


doing DPR search only in canonical abhidhamma

https://www.digitalpalireader.online/_d ... 1&rx=false

It looks like all (or almost all) occurrences are appanā and byāppanā are part of vitakka and sankappo glosses (which also occurs in MN 117). And the meaning there, MN 117 and vitakka/sankappo glosses, is as my previous post said with Vimuttimagga and KN Pe, it means one stays 'fixed' (appanā) on the thought/resolve of the meditation topic (as opposed to wandering off).

(that DPR online, you can check boxes to search cmy and subcmy, etc., I only did canonical Ab search, so someone who knows their stuff in Vism. and abhidhamma world should be able to dig up the answer to my question fairly easily).

Friday, May 13, 2022

Some pāḷi vocabulary words to easily pick up (if people hyphenate), from the chapter headers of Visuddhimagga

 Try to picture all the pāḷi words without the parenthesis.

That's the monstrosity I had to deal with as a beginner.

Why won't people be kind and hyphenate the words?

You'll have an easier time learning pāḷi.

You're welcome.

1 - Chapter 1: Description of virtue

    1.1 Sīla-sarūpādi-kathā: virtue description discussion

    1.2 Sīlā-nisaṃsa-kathā: virtue benefits discussion

    1.3 Sīlap-pabheda-kathā: How many divisions of virtue?

    1.4 Pātimokkha-saṃvara-sīlaṃ: virtue of restraint with training rules

    1.5 Indriya-saṃvara-sīlaṃ: faculty restraint virtue

    1.6 Ājīva-pārisuddhi-sīlaṃ: virtue of livelihood purification

    1.7 Paccaya-san-nissita-sīlaṃ: virtue concerning requisites

    1.8 Catu-pārisuddhi-sampādana-vidhi: 4 ways purification undertakings

    1.9 Paṭhama-sīla-pañcakaṃ: first virtue pentad in the fivefold

    1.10 Dutiya-sīla-pañcakaṃ: second virtue of fivefold

    1.11 Sīla-saṃ-kilesa-vodānaṃ: virtue with defiling and cleansing

2 - Chapter 2: The ascetic practices

    2.1 - 1. Paṃsukūlikaṅga-kathā: the refuse-rag-wearer’s practice

    2.2 - 2. Te-cīvarikaṅga-kathā: the triple-robe-wearer’s practice

    2.3 - 3. Piṇḍapātikaṅga-kathā: alms-food-eater’s practice

    2.4 - 4. Sapadānacārikaṅga-kathā: house-to-house-seeker’s practice

    2.5 - 5. Ekāsanikaṅga-kathā: one-sessioner’s practice

    2.6 - 6. Patta-piṇḍikaṅga-kathā: bowl-food-eater’s practice

    2.7 - 7. Khalu-pacchā-bhattikaṅga-kathā: later-food-refuser’s practice

    2.8 - 8. Āraññikaṅga-kathā: forest-dweller’s practice

    2.9 - 9. Rukkha-mūlikaṅga-kathā: tree-root-dweller’s practice

    2.10 - 10. Abbhokāsikaṅga-kathā: open-air-dweller’s practice

    2.11 - 11. Sosānikaṅga-kathā: charnel-ground-dweller’s practice

    2.12 - 12. Yathāsanthatikaṅga-kathā: any-bed-user’s practice

    2.13 - 13. Nesajjikaṅga-kathā: sitter’s practice

    2.14 - Dhutaṅga-pakiṇṇaka-kathā: ascetic-practice miscellaneous discussion

12 - Chapter 12: The supernormal powers

    12.1 Abhiññā-kathā: higer knowledges discussion

        12.1.5 only one in a million can do VRJ ‘jhāna’

    12.2 Dasa-iddhi-kathā: 10 types of power/success

    12.3 Nandopananda-nāga-damana-kathā: Taming the Dragon Nando

13 - Chapter 13: Other direct-knowledges

    13.1 Dibba-sota-dhātu-kathā: divine ear element

    13.2 Ceto-pariya-ñāṇa-kathā: mind reading knowledge

    13.3 Pubbe-nivās-ānus-sati-ñāṇa-kathā: previous lives recollection knowledge

    13.4 Cut-ūpapāta-ñāṇa-kathā: dying and rebirth knowledge

    13.5 Pakiṇṇaka-kathā: miscellaneous discussion

🔗📝 collection of notes on Visuddhi-magga


contradictions found:

4.11.5 simile of cook, nimitta gets redefined as visual VRJ kasina

Vuttampi cetaṃ bhagavatā – 122.And this has been said by the Blessed One:

(The cook sutta, SN 47.8, in EBT samādhi nimitta are not VRJ👻🥶 visual kasinas! They are the 5 types of skillful Dharma thoughts & perceptions to abandon unskillful mental states MN 20)

Idāni sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṃvedetīti ettha kiñcāpi tatiyajjhānasamaṅgino sukhapaṭisaṃvedanābhogo natthi.
175. Now, as to the clause he feels bliss with his body: here, although in one actually possessed of the third jhāna there is no concern about feeling bliss,
Evaṃ santepi yasmā tassa nāmakāyena sampayuttaṃ sukhaṃ.
nevertheless he would feel the bliss associated with his mental body,
Yaṃ vā taṃ nāmakāyasampayuttaṃ sukhaṃ, taṃsamuṭṭhānenassa yasmā atipaṇītena rūpena rūpakāyo phuṭo, yassa phuṭattā jhānā vuṭṭhitopi sukhaṃ paṭisaṃvedeyya.
and after emerging from the jhāna he would also feel bliss since his material body would have been affected by the exceedingly superior matter originated by that bliss associated with the mental body. 48
Tasmā etamatthaṃ dassento sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṃvedetīti āha.
It is in order to point to this meaning that the words “he feels bliss with his body” are said.    

frankk Analysis of 4.15.5:
Vism. is equivocal about what kāya means here, in the 3rd jhāna formula. 
They include both nāma-kāya and rūpa kāya as experiencing sukha.
However, they imply that while in appanā (frozen stupor of VRJ jhāna), one does not feel the physical rūpa kāya, but only the mental nāma-kāya.
But after emerging from VRJ jhāna, one would then also experience physical sukha of rūpa kāya.
So what are they claiming the Buddha meant by his instructions with 'kāya' in 3rd jhāna?
1. only nāma-kāya, which is what most LBT Vism.,  Abhidhamma, Sujato, Brahm will claim.
2. only rūpa-kāya, which is what genuine EBT jhāna would say (excluding fake EBT of Sujato, Brahm).
3. Both nāma-kāya and rūpa-kāya, which is how Vism. reads to me. The problem is, the Buddha, in passages such as KN Snp  5.7, by explicitly referencing realizing nirvana by being freed from nāma-kāya while in dimension of nothingness, shows he does specify nāma or rūpa kāya when it matters, and that when it's not in contexts such as Snp 5.7 formless dimension, we can safely assume unqualified rūpa, is referring to adjhatta rūpa (internal, meditator's physical body). 
In other words, Position #1 is unsupportable, and position #3 is just dogmatic Abhidhamma followers desperately clutching at straws trying to equivocate an explanation that will harmonize the irreconciliable contradictions between EBT and LBT text.  

Thursday, May 12, 2022

MN 78 and agama || MA 179: some interesting features. Does Buddha have right speech?

 Does Buddha have right speech?

People have this idea that the Buddha's "right speech" means never criticizing people or their wrong views. Here we see right speech can involve criticism.

        MN 781 - (Uggāhamāna's invincible ascetic— no bad body action, word, thought, livelihood)

            MN 781.1 - (Buddha makes fun of him, compare to baby)

Is right resolve a frozen state in  "single pointed" stupor?

There's a close connection between right view, right resolve, and the vitakka and vicāra of first jhāna.

Here we see first jhāna's vitakka is basically right resolve:

        MN 786 - (what are 3 kusalā saṅkappā? same 3 aspects of Right Resolve)
            MN 786.1 (kusalā saṅkappā depend on the 3 kusala perceptions)
            MN 786.2 - (kusalā saṅkappā cease in 2nd jhāna)
            MN 786.2.0 – (that means kusalā saṅkappā are active in 1st jhāna!
            MN 786.3 - (right effort removes kusala sankappa from first jhāna resulting in no V&V of 2nd jhāna)

Abhidhamma vibhanga also agrees with MN 78, right resolve being part of their gloss for first jhāna vitakka. 

So it's hard to imagine how Sujato and Analayo can continue to insist their first jhāna vitakka does not involve linguistic thought and comprehension of the thought.

Samma sankappa and vitakka, according to MN 78, can not be "placing the mind"  (sujato).

They can only be "placing the mind" on skillful Dharma thoughts and understanding the meaning of the thoughts while doing so.

Interesting differences between MN 78 and MA 179

Theravada treats sankappa and vitakka as equivalent in many contexts, including first jhāna.

The Sarvastivada, seems to treat sankappa as something subverbal that can survive past first jhāna. Unlike MN 78 where samma sankappa ceases in 2nd jhāna, MA 179 has samma sankappa cease in the 4th jhāna.

The other major difference, is MN 78 has right effort in every stage, purifying bodily action, virtue, speech, thoughts, whereas MA 179 has right sati (remembrance, "mindfulness") instead of right effort. 

My guess is, the error is unintentional, because both work, both are in accordance to Dhamma. In fact, sati, vāyāmo (effort), samādhi/jhāna can all be running together at the same time simultaneously, as both suttas show, and the personal experience of any skilled meditator can confirm.