ASMR = autonomous sensory meridian response. Or just skip the middlemen and learn jhāna from the Buddha

 

ASMR = autonomous sensory meridian response

Or you can just skip all the confused middle men researching the subject and just learn how to do the authentic EBT jhāna taught by the Buddha, and get ASMR response any time, anywhere, any trigger, whenever you want as long as you want.

excerpt from washington post article on ASMR:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/interactive/2023/asmr-videos-brain-science/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3993a10%2F64270131f19a510b042e18cf%2F621cfe3eade4e220908f49c3%2F29%2F72%2F64270131f19a510b042e18cf&wp_cu=913ffd262aace91936f591e7b08b977c%7CD917C2DA99071FBCE0530100007F0A67

What does ASMR do to your brain? Watch these videos and find out.

ASMR videos, which can leave people feeling tingly and blissful, are surging in popularity. Here’s a look at the science behind the experience.

By Aaron Steckelberg

, 

Richard Sima

and 

Alexa Juliana Ard

 

March 31 at 6:01 a.m.

A genre of video called ASMR is an increasingly popular form of online entertainment. Some viewers claim the videos give them pleasurable tingling sensations and help them relax and fall asleep.

...

Since 2010, interest in ASMR content has steadily risen on video streaming services such as YouTube.

This story is best experienced with low-battery mode off, audio enabled and headphones on.

Watch and listen. What do you feel?

Does it make you feel relaxed, peaceful and drowsy?

Do you feel a “tingly” sensation?

ASMR is short for autonomous sensory meridian response. For some people, specific sounds and images — like whispering, slurping noodles or crinkling paper — may trigger pleasurable sensations or feelings of euphoria, relaxation or well-being.

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Scientists don’t fully understand why some people get these sensations — or why these videos also make some people cringe. But emerging research offers some clues into what areas of the brain may be involved.

“It’s a bit bizarre, but it’s also blissful,” said Craig Richard, professor of physiology at Shenandoah University and founder of the ASMR University website. “It’s basically a deeply relaxing feeling that someone gets, and it involves these sparkly brain tingles.

ASMR CATEGORY:

CLASSIC

ASMR videos come in a variety of forms. “Classic” ASMR videos may include whispering and tapping sounds.

Common qualities in ASMR videos

ASMR videos vary greatly, but many share a similar aesthetic. They are often tightly cropped and close to the camera to create a sense of intimacy. Movements are slow and deliberate.

Creators sometimes use two microphones spaced about seven inches apart — similar to the distance between an adult’s ears — for a 3D stereo sound. If you wear headphones, it may sound like you and the ASMR host are in the same room.

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ASMR and the brain

One of the main areas that seems to be activated while watching ASMR content is the prefrontal cortex, a key region of the brain connected to social behavior in relationships.

Other neuroimaging studies found that ASMR experiences activate the brain’s reward system. This includes the nucleus accumbens, which receives dopamine, as well as centers of emotional arousal.

In one recent study, Natalie Roberts, a visiting fellow at Macquarie University, and her colleagues surveyed over 300 ASMR experiencers on their preferred “triggers.”

Almost half picked “close personal attention.” “Watching people do things in a careful way” came in second, with 43 percent.

Another possible difference between those who do and do not experience ASMR may involve the brain’s default mode network, which involves areas of the brain associated with internally focused attention, such as daydreaming or mind-wandering.

Research has found that those who experience ASMR have different connectivity patterns in this part of the brain compared to those who don’t respond to the videos.

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But what causes the involuntary “tingles” that start at the top of the head and move down the neck and spine is still a mystery.

“It’s very relaxing, but also very euphoric,” said Giulia Poerio, psychologist at the University of Sussex. “Some people say that it’s a kind of hypnotic-type trancelike state of relaxation.”

ASMR’s effects on the body

In a 2018 study, Poerio and her colleagues found that ASMR (the response itself) was associated with a lowered heart rate, which is a sign of relaxation, but also increased skin conductance response, which is a physical sign of excitement.

Some parents use ASMR videos to lull children to sleep. Videos with slime and crinkling paper are usually kid-friendly. But some ASMR videos are adult-oriented.

ASMR by itself is not a sexual feeling, Poerio said. “If you’re feeling sexually aroused when you’re watching an ASMR YouTube video, you’re not feeling ASMR — you’re feeling sexually aroused,” she said.

A link with misophonia

Many ASMR-experiencing people — 43 percent in one study — may also experience a different auditory condition called misophonia, where they feel a strong dislike or disgust for specific sounds such as chewing.

Though misophonia and ASMR seem like polar opposites, their underlying mechanisms may be similar: heightened sensitivity to the senses. One key difference may be control, Roberts said. For example, a person might find a sound such as tapping to be a pleasurable trigger in a video they choose to watch, but annoying from a stranger in a waiting room.

ASMR CATEGORY:

CRUSHING, CRINKLING AND SLIME

These videos often focus on chalk, slime or paper being crushed. Videos often showcase hands and repetitive movements. This category may also include diverse themes such as unboxing items, woodworking or making art.

Who experiences ASMR?

It is not known exactly how many people can experience ASMR. Some research in undergraduates or working adults indicates that it could be up to 15 to 20 percent of the population, though no peer-reviewed studies with representative samples of the general population have been conducted.

Many say their first experience with ASMR happened in childhood, usually before puberty, said Poerio, who has had ASMR for as long as she can remember.

Research suggests that ASMR is also related to the personality trait of openness or receptivity to new experiences and ideas, as well as absorption, which is the ability to be engrossed in an experience.

“I thought I was a freak basically until 2013,” said Poerio. And when she found out that she was not alone, she thought, “Oh, my gosh, it’s not a weird quirk. Other people also have this. And then I was like, I can’t believe no one’s researched this,” she said.

Many first memories of ASMR are triggered by real-life experiences such as a teacher explaining something softly, watching friends coloring on paper, or getting one’s hair cut.

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ASMR CATEGORY:

ROLE PLAY

Some ASMR videos directly acknowledge the viewer and engage in role play, where the performer acts out everyday activities such as giving a haircut or a medical exam. Makeup and self-care videos are exceptionally popular.

How do you know if you have ASMR?

It is also not known how long it takes someone to know if they experience ASMR. “How many ASMR videos does the average ASMR-naive person need to watch before discovering that they do or don’t experience ASMR? No one’s done that study,” Richard said.

Richard had never heard of ASMR before listening to a podcast in 2013. He initially dismissed it as “woo-woo bunk.” Just as he was about to turn off the podcast and delete the episode, the hosts brought up the painter Bob Ross.

“And my eyes lit up. Because I remember being a kid coming home from school and turning on Bob Ross,” Richard said. “To this day, I’ve never painted. It was his voice. It was the sound of his brushes. And it would just sweep over me.”

Ross was the first unintentional ASMR artist, Poerio said. The Design Museum in London even highlights his works in its recent ASMR exhibit.

Elements of ASMR content have bled into our broader culture. In 2019, a Super Bowl commercial showed actor and musician Zoë Kravitz whispering and tapping a bottle of Michelob beer with her fingernails.

Many celebrities have ASMR videos. In one, rapper Cardi B purrs and whispers and says that ASMR videos give her tingling sensations and help her sleep. She also notes that her husband thinks “it’s very strange and weird.”

ASMR CATEGORY:

COOKING AND EATING

Videos about preparing food and eating are also very popular. Triggers may include chopping, unwrapping, loud chewing and slurping sounds.

Most ASMR videos are associated with positive feelings; however, an ASMR subgenre related to food, called “mukbang,” which often depicts someone eating large amounts of food, may be associated with disordered eating.

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How ASMR affects well-being

ASMR helps highly sensory-sensitive people zone out and slow down. One study reported that ASMR could temporarily reduce depression and chronic pain symptoms.

People already use ASMR videos for lifting mood, alleviating anxiety, enjoyment, relaxation and falling asleep.

Even people who don’t experience ASMR have found some of the videos relaxing, Roberts said. “There does appear to be some relaxation benefit to people watching it,” she said. “But the flip side is that some people find the videos really annoying, too.”

“As researchers, we’re kind of playing catch-up to try to figure out why this is helping people,” Roberts said.

MN 61, question about asymmetry of bad mental action in matrix

 This is a question I asked Ven. Thanissaro, regarding MN 61, the mental portion having differences with the body and verbal.

     MN 61⁰ (intro)
        MN 61^0.1 (lying is bad; simile of empty water container)
        MN 61^0.2 (lying is bad; simile royal elephant risking life)
        MN 61^0.3 (Never lie! Lying leads to every evil)
        MN 61^0.4 (simile of miror: reflect before, during, after every action )
    MN 61¹ (mirror body action, kāyena kammaṃ )
        MN 61^1.1.1 (before Body action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^1.1.2 (before Body action → if leads to bad, don’t do)
        MN 61^1.1.3 (before Body action → if not lead to bad, do)
        MN 61^1.2.1 (during Body action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^1.2.2 (during Body action → if leads to bad, don’t do)
        MN 61^1.2.3 (during Body action → if not lead to bad, do)
        MN 61^1.3.1 (after Body action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^1.3.2 (after Body action → if it led to bad, confess and don’t do again)
        MN 61^1.3.3 (after Body action → if not lead to bad, rejoice pīti-pāmojja)
    MN 61² (mirror verbal action, vācāya kammaṃ)
        MN 61^2.1.1 (before Vocal action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^2.1.2 (before Vocal action → if leads to bad, don’t do)
        MN 61^2.1.3 (before Vocal action → if not lead to bad, do)
        MN 61^2.2.1 (during Vocal action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^2.2.2 (during Vocal action → if leads to bad, don’t do)
        MN 61^2.2.3 (during Vocal action → if not lead to bad, do)
        MN 61^2.3.1 (after Vocal action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^2.3.2 (after Vocal action → if it led to bad, confess and don’t do again)
        MN 61^2.3.3 (after Vocal action → if not lead to bad, rejoice pīti-pāmojja)
    MN 61³ (mirror mental action, manasā kammaṃ)
        MN 61^3.1.1 (before Mental action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^3.1.2 (before Mental action → if leads to bad, don’t do)
        MN 61^3.1.3 (before Mental action → if not lead to bad, do)
        MN 61^3.2.1 (during Mental action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^3.2.2 (during Mental action → if leads to bad, don’t do)
        MN 61^3.2.3 (during Mental action → if not lead to bad, do)
        MN 61^3.3.1 (after Mental action → consider consequence)
        MN 61^3.3.2 (after Mental action → if it led to bad, feel disgusted, horrified, and restrain yourself in future)
        MN 61^3.3.3 (after Mental action → if not lead to bad, rejoice pīti-pāmojja)
    MN 61⁵ (conclusion: all ascetics, brahmins, of past, future, present used this mirror method)
        MN 61^5.1 (Rāhula should also use mirror reflect method)

question

I have a question about the mental action, the part reflecting after one does a bad mental action.

The rest of the matrix seems to be consistent across body, verbal, mental, but this one part seems to be the only asymmetry.

Instead of confessing doing bad action to senior monks, it has a different directive than the body and vocal counterparts.

Sace kho tvaṃ, rāhula, paccavekkhamāno evaṃ jāneyyāsi:	If, while reflecting in this way, you know:
‘yaṃ kho ahaṃ idaṃ manasā kammaṃ akāsiṃ idaṃ me manokammaṃ attabyābādhāyapi saṃvattati, parabyābādhāyapi saṃvattati, ubhayabyābādhāyapi saṃvattati—	‘This act of mind that I have done leads to hurting myself, hurting others, or hurting both.
akusalaṃ idaṃ manokammaṃ dukkhudrayaṃ dukkhavipākan’ti, evarūpaṃ pana te, rāhula, manokammaṃ aṭṭīyitabbaṃ harāyitabbaṃ jigucchitabbaṃ;	It’s unskillful, with suffering as its outcome and result.’ Then, Rāhula, you should be horrified, repelled, and disgusted by that deed.
aṭṭīyitvā harāyitvā jigucchitvā āyatiṃ saṃvaraṃ āpajjitabbaṃ.	And being repelled, you should restrain yourself in future.

I understand one wouldn't confess bad mental actions to elders, since it would be impractical, time consuming, and not actually violating vinaya rules.

1. But other than someone who has very strong psychic powers, who can harm another being with a mere mental act, what is the pedestrian version of a wrong mental action successfully completed that led to harm of others?

2. and if someone with psychic powers harmed another being in some way tangibly, then shouldn't that require a confession?

3. Could you give several examples that show an ordinary monk without psychic powers successfully completing bad mental actions that led to harming others?

It seems like what the sutta might actually mean, is that if one detects an unskillful mental action, one should feel disgusted and horrified. It's hard to imagine one being so swift and powerful in samadhi that they can do all of those checks before a mental action, and during a mental action.

In other words, it seems like the matrix pattern is simply including the mental part without expecting ordinary monks to realistically carry it out exactly as specified for the mental portion of the matrix.

Ven. Ṭhānissaro's response

About the mental act: aside from cases of psychic powers, I think what the Buddha is getting at is when you’ve performed a bodily or verbal act that harmed someone else, you should reflect further back to see if that act was motivated by an unskillful mental act. The purpose of this is to dig down into the causes of the act within the mind, so that you can realize how the harm actually started with the mental acts leading up to the bodily or verbal act.


In a case like this, when you confess the bodily or verbal act to another monk, you would, of course, tell whether the act was intentional, but as for the mental acts that led up to the intention, those are for you to investigate yourself. There’s no need to draw the other monk into the murky psychological waters of your feelings about the other person, etc., unless you’re really having trouble figuring out how to get past a particular attitude. Once you’ve reflected on the internal sources of the harm, it will make you more inclined to be alert to them the next time they come up. This is how reflecting on your external actions leads ultimately to a realization that you have to uproot the sources of harm through meditation.


As for harmful acts of psychic power, in general the Vinaya doesn’t treat purely mental acts as offenses, with two exceptions: the rules dealing with killing human beings and other living beings. In both of those cases, the offense has to be confessed. In fact, if you kill a human being with an act of psychic power, you’re automatically not a monk.

difference between MN 140 and || MA 162: how do you forget an ariya getting gored to death by a bull just after he met the Buddha?

 

Re: Why did other early schools alter the Canon?

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Post by frank k » Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:11 am

interesting example:
in MN 140,
https://lucid24.org/mn/mn140/index.html#
16 – (conclusion: Pukkusāti wants to ordain)
16.2 – (he get gored by a bull)
16.4 – (Buddha announces he was reborn in pure abodes as non returner)

In the agama version, MA 162
https://lucid24.org/agama/ma/bdk/v3/index.html
he attains the dharma eye (stream entry)
and doesn't die.

My guess?
The theravada ending was made up, much like angulimala was probably made up or exaggerated to make a more dramatic story and symbol for redemption (one can still become an arhat after killing 1000 people in this life).
Getting gored to death by a cow just when you met the Buddha and had the opportunity to become an arhant easily, is probably made up to make the point that death can come at any time, we have to practice every moment.

I didn't read MA 162 slowly, carefully, in detail, I just scanned it quickly and saw in broad strokes, it seems to match all the parts of MN 140 pretty closely.

If the MN 140 version fatality for our hero was true, it's quite a memorable and unique event, it would be hard to forget and confuse with just being a stream enterer at the conclusion (MA 162). I can't see how the agama school would forget such a memorable event, so either the text got lost, truncated, or abbreviated in a way they lost the details in the reconstruction.

Myth: the Buddha, following right speech, would never criticize other religions and other religious leaders

AN 5.191 Soṇa: Dogs

191. Soṇasutta	191. Dogs
“Pañcime, bhikkhave, porāṇā brāhmaṇadhammā etarahi sunakhesu sandissanti, no brāhmaṇesu.	“monks, these five traditions of the brahmins are seen these days among dogs, but not among brahmins.
Katame pañca?	What five?
Pubbe sudaṃ, bhikkhave, brāhmaṇā brāhmaṇiṃyeva gacchanti, no abrāhmaṇiṃ.	In the past brahmins had sex only with brahmin women, not with others.
Etarahi, bhikkhave, brāhmaṇā brāhmaṇimpi gacchanti, abrāhmaṇimpi gacchanti.	These days brahmins have sex with both brahmin women and others.
Etarahi, bhikkhave, sunakhā sunakhiṃyeva gacchanti, no asunakhiṃ.	But these days dogs have sex only with female dogs, not with other species.
Ayaṃ, bhikkhave, paṭhamo porāṇo brāhmaṇadhammo etarahi sunakhesu sandissati, no brāhmaṇesu.	This is the first tradition of the brahmins seen these days among dogs, but not among brahmins.

...

AN 10.93

"Well done, householder. Well done. That is how you should periodically refute those foolish men with the Dhamma." Then he instructed, urged, roused, and encouraged Anathapindika the householder with a talk on Dhamma. When Anathapindika the householder had been instructed, urged, roused and encouraged by the Blessed One with a talk on Dhamma, he got up from his seat and, having bowed down to the Blessed One, left, keeping the Blessed One on his right side. Not long afterward, the Blessed One addressed the monks: "Monks, even a monk who has long penetrated the Dhamma in this Doctrine and Discipline would do well to refute the wanderers of other persuasions with the Dhamma periodically in just the way Anathapindika the householder has done." ~ Ditthi sutta AN 10.93

AN 10.94 

“saccaṃ kira, gahapati, samaṇo gotamo sabbaṃ tapaṃ garahati, sabbaṃ tapassiṃ lūkhājīviṃ ekaṃsena upakkosati upavadatī”ti?	“Is it really true, householder? Does the ascetic Gotama criticize all forms of mortification? Does he categorically condemn and denounce those self-mortifiers who live rough?”
“Na kho, bhante, bhagavā sabbaṃ tapaṃ garahati napi sabbaṃ tapassiṃ lūkhājīviṃ ekaṃsena upakkosati upavadati.	“No, sirs, the ascetic Gotama does not criticize all forms of mortification. Nor does he categorically condemn and denounce those self-mortifiers who live rough.
Gārayhaṃ kho, bhante, bhagavā garahati, pasaṃsitabbaṃ pasaṃsati.	The Buddha criticizes where it is due, and praises where it is due.
Gārayhaṃ kho pana, bhante, bhagavā garahanto pasaṃsitabbaṃ pasaṃsanto vibhajjavādo bhagavā.	In doing so he is one who speaks after analyzing the question,
Na so bhagavā ettha ekaṃsavādo”ti.	without making generalizations on this point.”

● MN 46 - 🔗🔊 18m, Mahā-dhamma-samādāna: longer (discourse on) {taking up} ☸Dharma-(practices)

     MN 45¹ (beings want good to come and bad to go)
        MN 45^1.1 (but the opposite happens. Why?)
        MN 45^1.2 (ordinary person cultivates wrong)
    MN 45⁴ (four permutation details)
        MN 45^4.1 (pain now and pain future: wrong action, speech, view)
        MN 45^4.2 (pleasure now and pain future: wrong action, speech, view)
        MN 45^4.3 (pain now and pleasure future: abstain from wrong action, speech, view)
        MN 45^4.4 (pleasure now and pleasure future: abstain from wrong action, speech, view)
    MN 45⁵ (four similes)
    MN 45⁶ (conclusion: way that is pleasant now and future ↔ rain season sky sun dispels dark)
        MN 45^6.1 (Buddha critical of wrong Dharmas of other religions)

 

● MN 49 - 🔗🔊 20m, Brahma-nimantanika: invitation to brahma

(note this is pretty much a Hindu version of nirvana)
        MN 49¹ – (Brahma has wrong view that his world is permanent)
        MN 49² – (Buddha uses psychic power to read Brahma’s mind, then visit Brahma realm)
        MN 49³ – (Buddha tells Brahma he’s ignorant)

(more to be added, as I run into them)

Forum discussion

Re: Did Buddha critisise his teachers and other sects?

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Lost in the matrix, no more! (massively bookmarked sutta table of contents on lucid24.org)

 

One of the goals of lucid24.org, only about 20% complete so far in MN, is to have detailed massively bookmarked table of contexts that:

1. not only serve as table of contents, but gives a concise summary of entire sutta

2. numbered and balanced as a tree in such a way it’s easy to know very quickly where you are in the matrix.

See for example 4👑☸ → MN‍ → MN 46 . If you had been dropped in randomly in any location of a plain sutta translation like Sujato's on suttacentral, there are so many repetitions you’d have no idea where you were in the sutta, what it's talking about.

And on the MN index page  4👑☸ → MN‍ , with abbreviated table of contents for all 152 suttas, you can quickly see the difference between MN 45 and MN 46 (both on the same topic)

● MN 45 - 🔗🔊 13m, Cūḷa-dhamma-samādāna: shorter discourse on taking up ☸Dharma-[practices]

“monks, there are these four ways of taking up practices.
        MN 45^4.1 – (pleasure now (5 sensual pleasure strings), future pain (reborn in lower realm))
        MN 45^4.1.5 - (sensual pleasure compared to creeper that kills tree)
        MN 45^4.2 – (Painful now (useless austerities), future pain (reborn in lower realm))
        MN 45^4.3 - (Painful now (resist urge of 5niv), future pleasure (reborn in deva realm))
        MN 45^4.4 - (Pleasure now (4j jhanas), pleasure future (rebirth in deva realm))

● MN 46 - 🔗🔊 18m, Mahā-dhamma-samādāna: longer (discourse on) {taking up} ☸Dharma-(practices)

     MN 45¹ (beings want good to come and bad to go)
        MN 45^1.1 (but the opposite happens. Why?)
        MN 45^1.2 (ordinary person cultivates wrong)
    MN 45⁴ (four permutation details)
        MN 45^4.1 (pain now and pain future: wrong action, speech, view)
        MN 45^4.2 (pleasure now and pain future: wrong action, speech, view)
        MN 45^4.3 (pain now and pleasure future: abstain from wrong action, speech, view)
        MN 45^4.4 (pleasure now and pleasure future: abstain from wrong action, speech, view)
    MN 45⁵ (four similes)
    MN 45⁶ (conclusion: way that is pleasant now and future ↔ rain season sky sun dispels dark)
        MN 45^6.1 (Buddha critical of wrong Dharmas of other religions)

notes on MN 18, MN 19, MN 20, || MA 102

 

MN 19 and agama || MA 102 two sorts of thoughts in first jhāna, and out, even Abhidhamma does not contradict this, what are Sujato and Brahm 'thinking'?

BDK MA middle length chinese translations: wrong translation of vitakka and vicara (thinking and pondering)

MN 19 and agama || MA 102 two sorts of thoughts in first jhāna, and out, even Abhidhamma does not contradict this, what are Sujato and Brahm 'thinking'?

 

● MN 19 - 🔗🔊 24m, Dve-dhā-vitakka: two-sorts-of-thinking

     MN 19¹ (divide thoughts into 2 groups, good and bad)
    MN 19² (how to handle 3 types of wrong thoughts)
        MN 19^2.10 (V&V quality of thinking “bends” mind into habit)
        MN 19^2.11 (simile of cowherd busy)
    MN 19³ (how to handle 3 types of good thoughts)
        MN 19^3.1 (renunciation in opposition to kāma/lust)
        MN 19^3.1.3 (first jhāna blocked by tired body)
        MN 19^3.1.5 (code phrase for “attempt 4 jhānas”)
        MN 19^3.10 (reiteration: quality of V&V thinking “bends” mind into habit)
        MN 19^3.11 (simile of cowherd relaxed in jhāna)
    MN 19⁴ (code phrase for successful entry into 4 jhānas)
    MN 19⁵ (Buddhist redefinition of Brahmin 3 Vedas (te-vijja))
    MN 19⁶ (simile: mara wants to kill deer, buddha wants to lead them to safety)

The two suttas are extremely simlilar, differences are minor.

MA 102 念: Two sorts of thinking (in first jhāna, and out)

MA 102 T 26.102 念 T i 589a11 MN 19
    MA 102¹ (divide thoughts into 2 groups, good and bad)
        MA 102^1.1 (bad: 3 counterparts of right resolve)
        MA 102^2.11 (simile of cowherd keeping cows in line with stick)
        MA 102^2.10 (V&V quality of thinking “bends” mind into habit)
    MA 102³ (how to handle 3 types of good thoughts)
        MA 102^3.1.3 (first jhāna blocked by tired body)
    MA 102^4.1 (This is first jhana, replacing standard STED formula)
        MA 102^4.1.5 (Allow myself thoughts about Dharma)
        MA 102^3.11 (simile of cowherd sitting with peaceful thought of just, “cow”)
        MA 102^3.10 (reiteration: quality of V&V thinking “bends” mind into habit, this time good)
    MA 102^4.2 (Skip to STED Second Jhana because Dhamma Vitakka above is first jhana!)
    MA 102⁵ (purified, imperturbable 4th jhana directed to realize nirvana)
    MA 102⁶ (simile of deer hunter)

comments

One interesting and notable difference is MA 102 omits first jhāna stanard formula, to emphasize that the previous section IS first jhāna.

This is similar to how EBT Theravada omits first jhāna from MN 125 and adds an extra satipaṭṭhāna section with the same 3 types of thoughts as MN 19.

● MN 125 - 🔗🔊 28m, Danta-bhūmi🐘: Tamed-level: 🔗📝

        Gradual training of monk using simile of training wild elephant. Highlights:
        MN 125¹ - (prince J. doesn’t think that teaching can lead to ekagga citta)
        MN 125^1.1 - (simile of well trained elephants)
        MN 125^1.2 - (simile of standing on mountain seeing clearly)
        MN 125^3.1.1 - (simile: new monk has 5kg desire ordains → elephant still desires pleasures of being wild in forest)
        MN 125^3.9.1 - (simile: 4sp satipaṭṭhāna nonstop,to subdue thoughts of household and delight in Dharma thoughts → elephant tied to post to keep it from returning to forest, and grow to like men and fortress)
        MN 125^3.10.1 - (simile: 4sp satipaṭṭhāna again without kama = first jhāna → elephant trained to like and follow commands for good war elephant)
        MN 125^3.10.2 - (note grass, water, firewood is simile for first jhāna from AN 7.67 )
        MN 125^3.11 - (skip 1st jhāna, go directly to 2nd jhāna, since the previous stage of satipaṭṭhāna was first jhāna!)
        MN 125^3.11.1 - (simile: monk developing 2nd through 4th jhāna → elephant tied up so it can’t move while training to be imperturbable to simulated weapons and battle stress)
        MN 125^5.1 - (simile: successful monk with imperturbable 4th jhāna withstands cold, heat, mosquitoes → elephant in live battle struck by spears, swords, arrows)

If you can think in satipaṭṭhāna ("mindfulness"), then you can think in first jhāna.

Even Abhidhamma vibhanga (book 2 of 7) does not contradict this.

It's hundreds of years later, with Vism., and then thousands of years later, with Brahm, Sujato, Analayo, where they contradict the suttas above and redefine vitakka and vicāra as "not thinking", instead "placing the mind and keeping it connected [to a breath nimitta or kasina]", in a disembodied frozen stupor.

As MN 125 shows, if you can think and have body awareness in satipaṭṭhāna ("mindfulness"), you can do that in first jhāna as well.

BDK MA middle length chinese translations: wrong translation of vitakka and vicara (thinking and pondering)

First I show my corrected translation of their sutta, which has direct hyper links taking you immediately to the precise location of the crime, with explanatory comments.

Then I quote their sutta passage with their wrong interpretation of vitakka and vicara of first jhāna.

MA 102 念: Two sorts of thinking (in first jhāna, and out)

MA 102 T 26.102 念 T i 589a11 MN 19
    MA 102¹ (divide thoughts into 2 groups, good and bad)
        MA 102^1.1 (bad: 3 counterparts of right resolve)
        MA 102^2.11 (simile of cowherd keeping cows in line with stick)
        MA 102^2.10 (V&V quality of thinking “bends” mind into habit)
    MA 102³ (how to handle 3 types of good thoughts)
        MA 102^3.1.3 (first jhāna blocked by tired body)
    MA 102^4.1 (This is first jhana, replacing standard STED formula)
        MA 102^4.1.5 (Allow myself thoughts about Dharma)
        MA 102^3.11 (simile of cowherd sitting with peaceful thought of just, “cow”)
        MA 102^3.10 (reiteration: quality of V&V thinking “bends” mind into habit, this time good)
    MA 102^4.2 (Skip to STED Second Jhana because Dhamma Vitakka above is first jhana!)
    MA 102⁵ (purified, imperturbable 4th jhana directed to realize nirvana)
    MA 102⁶ (simile of deer hunter)

  MA 102^4.1.5 is describing first jhāna thoughts. It clearly is not "initial application and sustained application", or "directed awareness." It is linguistic, verbal mental talk, the thoughts of renunciation, good will, and non cruelty, as well as any other thoughts of Dharma in accordance with the Dharma (that's equivalent to frame 4 of satipaṭṭhāna).

In the standard four jhāna formula, they deliberately omit first jhāna to make it clear the immediately preceding section is talking about jhāna. The contrast between cow herd previously being tired, and then relaxed with body pacified (passaddhi pacification awakening factor) is indicating 7 awakening factors are met, and this is samādhi in four jhāna territory.

It's astounding that anyone translating Chinese suttas could think first jhāna vitakka and vicāra is anything other than verbal thinking, when MA 102 goes through the trouble to deliberately delete first jhāna standard formula, and add this section (to replace first jhāna formula they deleted) to give a definitive gloss of V&V:

MA 102^4.1.5 (Allow myself thoughts about Dharma)

MA 102 is similar to Theravada's MN 125, where they deliberately omit first jhāna, and add an extra satipaṭṭhāna section with verbal thoughts to very clearly say that jhāna is satipaṭṭhāna, and just as one can think in satipaṭṭhāna with verbal thoughts, one thinks with verbal thoughts in first jhāna as well.

● MN 125 - 🔗🔊 28m, Danta-bhūmi🐘: Tamed-level: 🔗📝

        Gradual training of monk using simile of training wild elephant. Highlights:
        MN 125¹ - (prince J. doesn’t think that teaching can lead to ekagga citta)
        MN 125^1.1 - (simile of well trained elephants)
        MN 125^1.2 - (simile of standing on mountain seeing clearly)
        MN 125^3.1.1 - (simile: new monk has 5kg desire ordains → elephant still desires pleasures of being wild in forest)
        MN 125^3.9.1 - (simile: 4sp satipaṭṭhāna nonstop,to subdue thoughts of household and delight in Dharma thoughts → elephant tied to post to keep it from returning to forest, and grow to like men and fortress)
        MN 125^3.10.1 - (simile: 4sp satipaṭṭhāna again without kama = first jhāna → elephant trained to like and follow commands for good war elephant)
        MN 125^3.10.2 - (note grass, water, firewood is simile for first jhāna from AN 7.67 )
        MN 125^3.11 - (skip 1st jhāna, go directly to 2nd jhāna, since the previous stage of satipaṭṭhāna was first jhāna!)
        MN 125^3.11.1 - (simile: monk developing 2nd through 4th jhāna → elephant tied up so it can’t move while training to be imperturbable to simulated weapons and battle stress)
        MN 125^5.1 - (simile: successful monk with imperturbable 4th jhāna withstands cold, heat, mosquitoes → elephant in live battle struck by spears, swords, arrows)

MA 102 BDK wrong translation of vitakka and vicara of first jhāna

I further had this thought: “If I intentionally keep on thinking my body 

will lose strength and my mind will be troubled. Let me rather keep my 

mind in check within, continuously dwelling in inner tranquility, unified, 

having attained concentration, so that my mind will not be troubled.” 

Thereafter I kept my mind in check within, continuously dwelling in 

inner tranquility, unified, having attained concentration, and my mind was 

no longer troubled. 

[If] a thought without sensual desire arose in me, I further [allowed] 

thoughts to arise that were inclined toward the Dharma and in accordance 

with the Dharma. [If] a thought without ill-will, . . . [or] a thought without 

cruelty arose, I further [allowed] thoughts to arise that were inclined 

toward the Dharma and in accordance with the Dharma. Why was that? 

[Because] I did not see that countless evil and unwholesome states would 

arise because of [such thoughts]. 

It is just as in the last month of autumn, when the entire harvest has 

been collected, a cowherd boy sets the cows free in the uncultivated fields 

and is mindful of them, thinking, “My cows are there in the herd.” Why 

is that? Because the cowherd boy does not see that he would be scolded, 

beaten, or imprisoned for any trespassing. For this reason he is mindful 

of them thus, “My cows are there in the herd.” 

In the same way, [if] a thought without sensual desire arose in me, I 

further [allowed] thoughts to arise that were inclined to the Dharma and 

in accordance with the Dharma. [If] a thought without ill-will, . . . [or] a 

thought without cruelty arose, I further [allowed] thoughts to arise that 

were inclined to the Dharma and in accordance with the Dharma. Why 

was that? [Because] I did not see that countless evil and unwholesome 

states would arise because of [such thoughts]. 

Monks, in accordance with what one intends, in accordance with what 

one thinks, the mind takes delight in that. If a monk often thinks thoughts 

without sensual desire and abandons thoughts of sensual desire, then 

because of often thinking thoughts without sensual desire his mind takes 

delight in them. 

(this is pīti, sukha, joy of first jhāna Dharma thoughts, which they call "thoughts", not "directed awareness")

If a monk often thinks thoughts without ill-will, . . . [or] thoughts 

without cruelty, and abandons thoughts of ill-will, . . . [or] thoughts of 

cruelty, then because of often thinking thoughts without ill-will, . . . [or] 

thoughts without cruelty his mind takes delight in them.266

(second jhana happening here, first jhana formula omitted and replaced with thoughts of Dharma above)

With the calming of [directed] awareness and [sustained] contemplation, 

with inner stillness and mental unification, he dwells having attained the 

second absorption, which is without [directed] awareness and [sustained] 

contemplation and with rapture and happiness born of concentration.

Forum discussion

https://www.reddit.com/r/theravada/comments/11yhd6l/comment/jd7zsae/?context=3

unsolicitedbuddhism wrote:

This blog post won't be informative to anyone who wants to know the reason for said translations, requiring a lot of homework for the readers to find out why frankk believes the translators to be wrong and to find out why translators of the Chinese agamas landed on their translation choices. For context, the Introduction section of the BDK MA Vol. II translation gives a brief justification:

BDK explanation of V&V:

Although care has been taken to ensure that Volumes II to IV generally main- tain continuity of terminology and style with Volume I, two exceptions have been introduced. These deserve to be spelled out here, not only to inform readers but also to illustrate the kinds of difficult decisions that translators of Chinese Buddhist texts often have to make.

The first exception concerns the paired Chinese terms jue and guan. These denote the first two factors of the first meditative absorption (Pāli jhāna) and correspond to the paired Pāli terms vitakka and vicāra. In Volume I jue and guan are translated as “initial and sustained application of the mind,” because that (or something similar) is how the corresponding Pāli terms are sometimes rendered. In Volumes II to IV, however, the terms jué and guān in the same context are translated as “[directed] awareness and [sustained] contemplation.” We believe this phrase succeeds in capturing the meanings of the two terms as they are used elsewhere in the Chinese Madhyama-āgama. This change was made with full recognition that there is sometimes a tension between the twin aims of producing a faithful rendering of the Chinese text and taking due account of the underlying Indic text.

The issue arises when one is producing an English translation of a Chinese translation of an Indic original (on such issues see Roderick S. Bucknell, “Taking Account of the Indic Source-text,” in Konrad Meisig ed., Translating Buddhist Chinese, Problems and Prospects [Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz, 2010], pp. 45–52). In recognition of the challenges presented by such a process, the editors have followed the principle that within the framework of overall cooperation, each takes special care of, and responsibility for, one of these two dimensions of the translation process. Thus, Roderick S. Bucknell has given special attention to the accuracy of the English translation in reflecting the Chinese source-text, whereas Bhikkhu Anālayo has emphasized discerning the underlying Indic original, as well as providing relevant comparative annotation. It is hoped that as a result of such collaboration, the translation presented here does justice both to the Chinese text as we now have it and to its no-longer-extant Indic forerunner.

frankk response:

Even taking that into account,

If we go by indic sanskrit source, analayo is still wrong.

vitarka and vicāra, look at it's use in other religious sanskrit text, still means thinking and pondering in a samādhi context.

And my point still stands, MA 102 (that sutta is all about first jhāna!) is giving a more authorative gloss of V&V in first jhana, that overrides whatever Rod Bucknell thinks the chinese translators were saying.

The chinese for V&V is tricky enough to translate, but the [directed] and [sustained] comments are wrong, obviously trying to make a connection to Analayos wrong translation from the earlier volumes.

DN 16, MN 8 Buddha and Alara not hearing sounds from 500 carts and thunderstorm is 'peaceful dwelling', not 'four jhānas'

I found a nice contrast between 'peaceful dwelling' and 'pleasant dwelling' of four jhānas in MN 8.

hearing in jhāna👂🌄 : You can hear sounds in the 4 jhānas. Which samādhis are silent?

'Santa Vihara', Peaceful dwellings, are formless attainments, not 4 jhānas

Besides the imperturbable formless samādhi where one can not hear sounds, the another term that is used is 'Santa Vihara', Peaceful dwellings.
In DN 16 when Buddha and his Teacher can not hear sounds, they are in Santa Vihara.
As MN 8 very clearly delineates, the four jhānas are 'pleasant dwellings', as opposed to the 4 formless attainments which are 'peaceful dwellings.'

● MN 8 - 🔗🔊 22.5m, Sallekha: self effacement

     MN 8⁰ (Many wrong views on self and world)
        MN 8^0.3 (how to give up those wrong views? Seeing not mine, not self...)
        MN 8^0.8.1 (1st jhāna... 4th jhāna is pleasant dwelling, not self-effacement)
        MN 8^0.8.5 (dimension of infinite space... neither perception nor non, is peaceful dwelling, not self-effacement)
    MN 8¹ (Sallekhapariyāya: The Exposition of Self-Effacement, list 44 ways)
    MN 8² (Cittupapādapariyāya: Giving Rise to the Thought)
    MN 8³ (Parikkamanapariyāya: A Way Around)
    MN 8⁴ (Uparibhāgapariyāya: Going Up)
    MN 8⁵ (Pari-nibbāna-pariyāya: The Exposition by Nirvana)
        MN 8^5.3 (if you’re not nirvana’d you can’t liberate others ↔ if you stuck in mud, can’t pull out others)

DN 16 Buddha was in formless samādhi when he couldn't hear, not four jhānas as Brahm and Vism. wrongly claim

‘Idāni, bhante, deve vassante deve gaḷagaḷāyante vijjullatāsu niccharantīsu asaniyā phalantiyā	‘Just now, sir [Buddha], it was raining and pouring, lightning was flashing, and thunder was cracking.
dve kassakā bhātaro hatā cattāro ca balibaddā.	And two farmers who were brothers were killed, as well as four oxen.
Ettheso mahājanakāyo sannipatito.	Then this crowd gathered here.
Tvaṃ pana, bhante, kva ahosī’ti?	But sir, where were you?’
‘Idheva kho ahaṃ, āvuso, ahosin’ti.	‘I was right here, friend.’
‘Kiṃ pana, bhante, addasā’ti?	‘But sir, did you see?’
‘Na kho ahaṃ, āvuso, addasan’ti.	‘No, friend, I didn’t see anything.’
‘Kiṃ pana, bhante, saddaṃ assosī’ti?	‘But sir, didn’t you hear a sound?’
‘Na kho ahaṃ, āvuso, saddaṃ assosin’ti.	‘No, friend, I didn’t hear a sound.’
‘Kiṃ pana, bhante, sutto ahosī’ti?	‘But sir, were you asleep?’
‘Na kho ahaṃ, āvuso, sutto ahosin’ti.	‘No, friend, I wasn’t asleep.’
‘Kiṃ pana, bhante, saññī ahosī’ti?	‘But sir, were you conscious?’
‘Evamāvuso’ti.	‘Yes, friend.’
‘So tvaṃ, bhante, saññī samāno jāgaro deve vassante deve gaḷagaḷāyante vijjullatāsu niccharantīsu asaniyā phalantiyā neva addasa, na pana saddaṃ assosī’ti?	‘So, sir, while conscious and awake you neither saw nor heard a sound as it was raining and pouring, lightning was flashing, and thunder was cracking?’
‘Evamāvuso’ti?	‘Yes, friend.’
Atha kho, pukkusa, tassa purisassa etadahosi:	Then that person thought:
‘acchariyaṃ vata bho, abbhutaṃ vata bho, santena vata bho pabbajitā vihārena viharanti.	‘It’s incredible, it’s amazing! Those who have gone forth remain in such peaceful meditations,
Yatra hi nāma saññī samāno jāgaro deve vassante deve gaḷagaḷāyante vijjullatāsu niccharantīsu asaniyā phalantiyā neva dakkhati, na pana saddaṃ sossatī’ti.	in that, while conscious and awake he neither saw nor heard a sound as it was raining and pouring, lightning was flashing, and thunder was cracking.’