Skip to main content

why it matters: "noble disciple" vs. "disciple of the noble ones"

 

Re: jhana and cula-sotapanna

Post by frank k » 

SDC wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 6:22 am...
Why did you define ariyasāvaka twice? Does it appear two different ways? Did you mean to distinguish between the sutavato ariyasāvaka (instructed noble disciple) and something else? Because as far as I know there is no such thing as a assutavā ariyasāvaka (uninstructed noble disciple), but simply ariyasāvaka (noble disciple) without the additional description of being sutavato (learned/instructed), but in no way implying they are unlearned.
defined twice because I cut and paste from formatted article, the first one is a heading.

It's not about ariya savaka themself being unlearned or not.
The 'sutava' /learned designation is to contrast with the asutava / unlearned ordinary person.

ariya savaka is a noble one's disciple, not a noble disciple.
Read the link I quoted earlier.
And if you're still not convinced, really read thorugh all the suttas and try it both ways.

The reason some people like me make a big fuss about this distinction, is becuase it makes a big difference in how you (anyone) reads and approaches the suttas.

When all the sutta places that say "noble disciple" does this, the reader thinks, "oh, this doesn't apply to me, it's what you do after you're a stream enterer and you're working on arahantship."

But when you see it says, "a disciple of the noble ones does this", you think, "okay, I need to do this."


It's like underprivileged minority kids reading instructions from privileged white folks on how to be successful. They just think, "oh, this doesn't apply to me."
But when it's written by someone who was underprivileged minority like themself, then they take the instruction seriously and try it out for themselves.


Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha...
Post a Comment
Read more

SN 48.40 Ven. Thanissaro comments on Ven. Sunyo's analysis

This was Ven. Sunyo's analysis of SN 48.40: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/05/exciting-news-honest-ebt-scholars-like.html And here is Ven. Thanissaro's response to that analysis: I think there’s a better way to tackle the issue of SN 48:40 than by appealing to the oldest layers of commentarial literature. That way is to point out that SN 48:40, as we have it, doesn’t pass the test in DN 16 for determining what’s genuine Dhamma and what’s not. There the standard is, not the authority of the person who’s claiming to report the Buddha’s teachings, but whether the teachings he’s reporting are actually in accordance with the principles of the Dhamma that you know. So the simple fact that those who have passed the Buddha’s teachings down to us say that a particular passage is what the Buddha actually taught is not sufficient grounds for accepting it. In the case of the jhānas—the point at issue here— we have to take as our guide the standard formula for the jhānas, a...
Post a Comment
Read more

1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue

To give more context, this is a public event,  * everyone knows cameras are rolling  *  it's a room full of children * the boy's mom is standing off camera a few feet away watching all of this * the boy initiated contact, he had already had a hug with Dalai Lama earlier and then asked Dalai Lama for another hug which triggered this segment  17 min. video showing what happened before that 1 min. clip and after, with some explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78 16min talk from Ajahn Acalo with his thoughts on Dalai Lama kissing boy, relevance to Bhikkhu monastic code, sexual predators in religion in general, and how celibate monastics deal with sexual energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2m0TcUib0 The child's comments about the incident in a filmed interview later https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/04/18/643eba5d46163ffc078b457c.html The child: It's a great experience It was amazing to meet His Holiness and I think it's a great ex...
Post a Comment
Read more