Wednesday, August 30, 2023

Ajahn Brahm body scan meditation, he calls it "the Delight of relaxation", the Buddha calls it "four jhānas"

 

1 hour 24 min. video Dhamma talk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-bQuKnxxX4



Ajahn Brahm calls his body scan meditation "the Delight of relaxation"

35:49

so I've now relaxed my whole body from head to toe

35:58

and I experience it there's a unit one thing all together my

36:05

body or rather the body that bears my name

36:13

and if it's anything else it needs I will grant it that attention and care

36:25

and now it starts to come the beautiful sense of peace

36:31

what I call the Delight of relaxation


The Buddha calls Ajahn Brahm's "body scan meditation",  the four jhānas'

4.3.2.5. Paṭhamajhāna
4.3.2.5. First jhāna
so
The monk is

(STED 1st Jhāna)

🚫💑 vivicc’eva kāmehi
Judiciously-secluded from sensuality,
🚫😠 vivicca a-kusalehi dhammehi
Judiciously-secluded from unskillful ☸Dharmas,
(V&V💭) sa-vitakkaṃ sa-vicāraṃ
with directed-thought and evaluation [of those verbal ☸Dharma thoughts],
😁🙂 viveka-jaṃ pīti-sukhaṃ
with [mental] rapture and [physical] pleasure born from judicious-seclusion,
🌘 paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.
he attains and lives in first jhāna.

(refrain: pervading physical body with jhāna bliss)

So
They
imameva kāyaṃ vivekajena pītisukhena abhisandeti parisandeti paripūreti parippharati,
drench, steep, fill, and spread their body with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion.
nāssa kiñci sabbāvato kāyassa vivekajena pītisukhena apphuṭaṃ hoti.
There’s no part of the body that’s not spread with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion.

(1st jhāna simile ↔ bath powder soaked with moisture)

Seyyathāpi, mahārāja,
It’s like when
dakkho nhāpako vā nhāpakantevāsī vā kaṃsathāle nhānīyacuṇṇāni ākiritvā udakena paripphosakaṃ paripphosakaṃ sanneyya,
an expert bathroom attendant or their apprentice pours bath powder into a bronze dish, sprinkling it little by little with water.
sāyaṃ nhānīyapiṇḍi snehānugatā snehaparetā santarabāhirā phuṭā snehena, na ca paggharaṇī;
They knead it until the ball of bath powder is soaked and saturated with moisture, spread through inside and out; yet no moisture oozes out.


AN-a 5, 1. paṭhamapaṇṇāsakaṃ, 3. pañcaṅgikavaggo, 8. pañcaṅgikasuttavaṇṇanā, para. 1 ⇒
(geoff shatz trans.)
imameva kāyan-ti imaṃ karajakāyaṃ.
“This very body:” this body born of action [i.e. born of kamma].
Abhisandetī-ti temeti sneheti,
“He drenches:” he moistens,
sabbattha pavatta-pīti-sukhaṃ karoti.
he extends joy and pleasure everywhere.
Parisandetī-ti samantato sandeti.
“Steeps:” to flow all over.
Paripūretī-ti vāyunā bhastaṃ viya pūreti.
“Fills:” like filling a bellows with air.
Parippharatī-ti samantato phusati.
“Permeates:” to touch all over.
sabbāvato kāyassāti assa bhikkhuno
“His whole body:” in this monk’s body,
sabbakoṭṭhāsavato kāyassa kiñci upādinnakasantatipavattiṭṭhāne
with all its parts, in the place where acquired [material] continuity occurs there is not even the smallest part consisting of
Chavi-maṃsa-lohit-ānugataṃ
skin, flesh, and blood
aṇumattampi ṭhānaṃ paṭhamaj-jhāna-sukhena a-phuṭaṃ nāma na hoti.
that is not-permeated with the pleasure of the first-jhāna.


Ajahn Brahm says the Buddha and Theravada commentators were wrong, kāya is not 'physical body' of flesh, blood, head and toes, but a mental body

Ajahn brahm says, in his book, "mindfulness, bliss, and beyond":

The Buddha’s Similes for the Four Jhānas

The Buddha would often describe the experience within the four jhānas by evocative similes (e.g., MN 39,15-18; 77,25-28). Before explaining these similes, it is helpful to pause and clarify the meaning of kāya, a key Pāli word used in all the similes. Kāya has the same range of meanings as the English word “body.” Just as “body” can mean things other than the body of a person, such as a “body of evidence,” for example, so too kāya can mean things other than a physical body, such as a body of mental factors, nāma-kāya (DN 15,20). In the jhānas the five senses do not operate, which means that there is no experience of a physical body. The body has been transcended. Therefore, when the Buddha states in these four similes, “so that there is no part of his whole kāya unpervaded (by bliss and so on),” this can be taken to mean “so that there is no part of his whole mental body of experience unpervaded” (MN 39,16). This point is frequently misunderstood.

...

Such is the meaning of the four similes for jhāna, as I understand them.


The famous Ajahn Chah, who is Ajahn Brahm's teacher, agrees with the Buddha that the physical body in four jhānas experiences the pleasure


https://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/cmy/ajahnchah/index.html



So if the Buddha, Theravada commentaries, Ajahn Chah, all say the four jhānas describe a kāya of a physical body, then why does Ajahn Brahm contradict them?

And more importantly, why do so many people continue to believe Ajahn Brahm's definition of jhāna over the Buddha and Ajahn Chah? 



full Transcript of Ajahn Brahm talk

0:00

so good afternoon and welcome it's a happy hour and a quarter at

0:08

Buddha Society of Western Australia Saturday afternoon meditation class

0:14

and we all ready to go all good okay

0:20

[Music] so I just come back from overseas a day and

0:26

a half ago it's almost two days now and this monk came back from from Belgium

0:31

when was it two and a half days ago father Monday Monday so we're both jet left

0:40

but fortunately the the last place I left Oslo that was

0:46

seven hour time difference so now that is 8 A.M over there so eight o'clock is

0:53

when I'm up meditating and working hard so I'm back to normal at the moment

0:59

so it feels really nice that right now no jet lag

1:05

he'll come back again later on we won't be able to sleep tonight but never mind uh you're a monk you know how to be with

1:13

your body and not to fight it to understand it and learn from it

1:19

so we're now putting on the air console just in Oslo can we have an Oslo temperature please it was one degree

1:26

[Laughter] they don't have good air cons here in

1:32

Perth the minimum is 16 and that is hot in Norway

1:38

anyway so anyway that's enough of the introductions now we can uh talk a

1:46

little bit about meditation and one of the explanations which I gave uh in our

1:53

meditation Retreats meditation talks which I gave in UK and also in Oslo was

2:00

how to deal with the Restless mind because do you suffer from restlessness

2:08

that when you want to say watch the breath and your mind goes all over the place when you're trying to be still and

2:15

you're thinking about all the problems in the world or in somebody else's world and not your world

2:22

and do you get tired trying to always bring the Mind back whether it's onto

2:29

the breathing or onto the body or onto loving kindness why does your mind keep

2:36

wandering off one of the lovely ways of understanding

2:42

that it wanders off because the one that's his nature and number two

2:49

you think you have to stay on one thing in your meditation

2:55

so did I leave Perth about three or four weeks ago

3:04

I didn't go anywhere ever I was aware and there I was I never flew to

3:13

London I never flew to Oslo I just sat on the plane and the aircraft did the

3:20

flying now this is not a joke it's learning to have a different perception of what

3:28

you're doing and where you are so wherever I was I was there

3:34

now what about when your mind wanders off if you can call it wandering off

3:41

why do you perceive it to be wandering off from where

3:47

in meditation where do you expect yourself to be

3:52

and this is one of our problems we are taught we have to be watching the breath

3:58

we have to be spreading that incarnate we have to be aware of our body we

4:04

thought we have to be somewhere and sometimes the nature of uh

4:10

mind is aware of something else so I wasn't here last week last week I

4:18

was in Oslo is that wrong and that's where I happen to be

4:25

so I was happy to be there because I was happy to be there and that's where I was when those two came

4:32

together there was peace so when you are meditating

4:38

why do I always think that you're wandering off somewhere only thing is that you think that this

4:45

is where I am and I'm supposed to be aware of something else that's a problem

4:50

if you look at the ah they call it the second Noble Truth of suffering suffering is uh you are here you want to

4:58

be somewhere else now why do we do that in meditation

5:04

where her mind is looking at something and we wanted to look at something else that is counter

5:11

to the Buddha's teachings that's why we call it restlessness and

5:16

why we suffer why don't whatever you happen to be that's where you are

5:23

be mindful of it be kind to it learn from it and then it

5:30

after a while disappears we don't try and cure it we care for it

5:37

now what that means we started meditating and you think I'm going to now go and watch my breath

5:44

instead of saying or doing or thinking things like that it's dead when you are meditating ask

5:53

yourself what are you aware of where are you yes I'm supposed to be in Perth

6:00

but sometimes I'm somewhere else that's the nature of my life

6:05

I can't be in Oslo and think no I want to be back in Perth that is suffering

6:11

instead I'm in Oslo that's where I'm aware of that's where I will be for this

6:17

moment the same thing when you are meditating

6:22

it's much much more efficient instead of meditating on the breath or

6:29

meditating on loving kindness or meditating on this or meditating on that put that aside for a while

6:35

and just ask yourself what is in front of my mind right now

6:42

and it could be your work it could be the appointment you have after you leave here it could be all

6:50

sorts of stuff that's happening right now to deny it

6:56

is actually just causing you suffering and stress I should have actually said to begin with that we do have an

7:03

introduction to meditation class which is in the room on my right so if anyone's coming for the first

7:09

class in meditation that's being held in the room of my right this is the ongoing class

7:15

but anyway okay one person's escaping very good

7:21

so this is the ongoing class the introduction class is the room on my right I thought you might go as well

7:29

so anyway when we can uh instead of having this idea where we

7:37

need to be to ask yourself where are you what is happening in my mind right now

7:45

and that all Emperors three questions tight meditation now is the most

7:51

important time obviously what is the most important thing to be aware of

7:57

and the answer you can remember is whatever is in front of your mind right

8:03

now that's the most important thing to be aware of

8:09

and you may think I'm not supposed to be thinking my business I'm not supposed to

8:15

be thinking some fantasy when I'm meditating that causes stress in your meditation

8:23

how about you're aware of it it's happening right now

8:28

be kind to it it's the kindness is this beautiful key

8:36

which actually softens the experience and if it's experiences just like

8:44

um some sort of fantasy or some think about work being kind to that thought being

8:52

kind to that experience means that it softens it and it very quickly disappears

9:01

giving it ill will I don't want to be here I'm not supposed

9:07

to be thinking about my work I'm supposed to be just being still or

9:12

something that feeds the restlessness it gives it

9:17

more energy so instead Wherever You Are

9:23

at the beginning of the meditation whatever you are aware of

9:28

for you that's the most important meditation object in the world believe it or not

9:34

caring for it doesn't mean you indulge in it caring for you just know that your mind

9:40

needs some kindness that's where it wants to go fine

9:46

when you give it that kindness that softens and pacifies the mind and soon

9:53

your mind becomes calm and peaceful

9:58

and still that's how the Stillness is created how it's generated

10:06

you're not fighting the mind you know there's many bad people in this world bad regimes and people fight those

10:15

Wars you can understand why they do that how much destruction

10:20

does that cause do you want to fight a war with your own mind

10:27

if you want to fight a war with your own mind you get lots and lots of Destruction

10:33

and the price you're left with is very unhealthy so instead make peace

10:40

be kind be gentle what does it say under here

10:46

still say the same thing maybe peace be kind be gentle

10:51

there's no reason for those words that's the Buddhas uh second

10:57

uh factor of the Eightfold pass make peace be kind be gentle

11:03

if you do that with your meditation whatever you're aware of right now you're not controlling your mind

11:11

you're not deciding what it should be thinking you're making peace with it

11:17

being kind with it being gentle and you'll find discover amazing things

11:24

happen it's your mind it starts to settle down

11:29

it become really really peaceful it does not not because you force it to

11:35

be peaceful not because you choose to make it peaceful you choose to be aware of

11:41

what's actually happening right now not what should be happening but what

11:46

actually is happening and you're kind to it and kindness softens everything down

11:54

even physically I've been in many situations in my 48 years as a monk

12:01

where I should have been punched we were just outside here many years ago

12:07

this guy I called him back to deliver some or replace some stuff they

12:12

delivered had a big opening ceremony many years ago here it had the governor of Western Australia so Gordon Reed and

12:20

then read Hardware a highway after him he was a governor at the time and he came here to open up our our nalamara

12:27

Center I ordered all the chairs for the VIPs not one of those chairs no exaggeration

12:34

not one of those chairs had an ex the same length they're all wobbled

12:40

now imagine you're having the governor of Western Australia here and he was be

12:45

sitting on a wobbly chair there would not be this sort of impression we'd like to give

12:50

especially his wife was with him as well if she fell off during the ceremony although that would be so embarrassing

12:58

so I had to call them back here to change the chairs on a Friday

13:03

afternoon all those workers had already left work they were in the office

13:09

the pub and they were just starting their

13:14

weekend drinking and so when I called them they had to come back imagine how they felt Aussie

13:22

workers on a Friday evening having to come back to work

13:28

so when when the truck just turned the corner from constant

13:33

Street to not to um what was this place called again

13:39

of course this is a big one at the top there Nancy thank you the Nelson way I still

13:44

got some um jet lag left but anyway Nancy way they turned the

13:50

corner and one guy jumped out of the the truck he was still going about 20 30 kilometers an hour he jumped out and

13:57

came running up where's the broken charge where's the broken charge I want the bloke in charge

14:05

and for that delivery I was a broken chart

14:11

now remember he came running towards me he had his fist up this far in front of

14:17

my nose he was not peaceful I could not see any compassion in him at

14:22

all instead I could smell the alcohol on his breath I often claim that's the most

14:28

alcohol I've ever breathed in in the whole 48 years I've been a monk

14:35

he was about to punch me he was upset I've been taken away from

14:40

his the start of his weekend drinking to help the Buddhists he's got the Buddhists he called us

14:47

he wasn't very very friendly and he had his fist in front of my nose

14:52

and he could see his eyes were wide like those symbols of those monsters and the

14:58

drawings on the temples in Asia you're not like one of those

15:04

but unfortunately I had all my friends they were also helping with the ceremony

15:09

and they were all looking not one of them came to help me

15:15

thank you thank you friends it was not necessary

15:20

because I had was not trying to cure him of his anger not trying to do anything just

15:27

making peace being kind being gentle and because that's what I was doing he

15:35

I knew he could not hit me at all other people would have been punched

15:42

but I just stared at him with kindness and not about three or four minutes

15:48

the truck had parked and the boss had come out and came after him and said let's help unload I said yeah I'll help

15:55

you so we both unloaded everything together that's how to deal with things which are

16:02

challenging for you I didn't try to get rid of that man I didn't try and punch him first

16:10

I didn't do anything like that I let it be that's exactly what I do in meditation

16:18

you're thinking about all sorts of things you're trying to get rid of it no

16:25

Let It Be with kindness you don't indulge in it

16:31

you do this opposite not trying to get rid of not trying to keep

16:37

but just being with it with kindness with care with peace

16:42

and then you find it doesn't last that long it just disappears and goes away

16:49

and then where he never have restlessness the whole idea of restlessness is a bit

16:54

weird to me Wherever You Are that's where you you'll be

17:02

and you make peace with it all the time making peace being kind being gentle and that means that it's in meditation

17:09

it's not what you're experiencing but how you are experiencing it how you

17:14

react to it how you deal with it that is a trick so just make peace with everything

17:21

be kind be gentle and then what starts off as someone

17:28

tried to attack you that's like your mind tried to attack you it doesn't want to behave it doesn't

17:34

want to be where you tell it to be instead you're kind to the mind and then the mind just follows you

17:40

around wherever you want to go so I went to London and to Oslo

17:46

my mind followed me everywhere it wasn't in Perth when I was in in

17:51

Oxford we were together all that time that's how restlessness disappears

18:00

whatever you're aware of is fine as long as you are kind

18:07

peaceful and gentle with it a little mind if you want to think about

18:12

those things fine when you're finished I'll be here you're kind to it and their mind doesn't

18:18

want to do anything other than be with you that is how restlessness disappears

18:27

so easy you don't do it you're just kind

18:34

and the mind settles down and become really peaceful

18:39

that's how meditation works okay

18:46

so can you do that I don't see why you don't have to do

18:52

anything just watch see what's happening and be kind to it pretty simple isn't it so I expect all

18:59

of you to be enlightened by the end of the the end of this session this afternoon

19:08

who knows okay so let's get ready for our

19:15

meditation with no restlessness at all

19:20

so you're sitting down hopefully comfortably

19:29

I will do a little guidance first of all it's great if it works it doesn't work fine

19:34

just wherever you are that's where you're meant to be

19:40

hmm okay so we just did a little guidance first of all because people get used to

19:45

this I'll introduce the way of non-restlessness afterwards

19:55

So Close Your Eyes

20:02

and if it's very warm like I'm always warm in this room so I'm

20:07

now going to imagine I'm sitting in the snow in Oslo

20:13

imagination does actually work you can create an environment

20:20

which is comfortable for you

20:30

and then I become aware of my body first of all yeah this is against the restlessness

20:36

thing something to do but then this is just preparation for where restlessness afterwards will

20:43

be a hindrance but then when we come to that point I'll instruct how to deal with it

20:51

efficiently with no tiredness no stress

20:58

with peace so how does your body feel now

21:06

and just to start by Simple Kindness to the body let's check

21:12

I like to check my toes first of all such a long way from my head

21:18

because I used to be at University I was really into my head and I was very unaware of other parts of

21:24

my body to the point that actually anchar told me I had stupid feet

21:30

I was hitting them on rocks and roots in the ground

21:41

so how do your feet feel

21:47

your toes first of all if you've got no awareness of your toes

21:53

wiggle them and then I get what I call toe feeling

21:59

I can experience them the special type of feeling in my toes

22:08

I want to become aware of that my mindfulness is increasing

22:14

and it's the kindness I care for my toes

22:19

even though I pay them little attention sometimes I do care for them and now I

22:25

Express that and my toes relax

22:35

sometimes people think number one you can't relax your toes and why do you want to relax your toes

22:42

it's a good exercise and then once my toes feel a certain

22:49

type of feeling sensation I've got a new name for it tingling sometimes I call it

22:56

it tells me that those toes are relaxed to the max

23:02

and I go up to the feet

23:08

the uppers the soles the skin on the outside any bones or bruising inside

23:15

try to be aware of all of that and I relax it

23:22

after a while when you practice this mindfulness it's pretty easy to relax any part of the body

23:30

once you have awareness of it you do a little bit of trial and never

23:36

try this and try that and you soon learn the art of relaxing your own body

23:44

I'm gonna go out to my ankles relax them

23:50

really relax and deeply

23:56

sometimes people say you just imagine this I jump from I don't care anything the imagination

24:02

does actually produce real true relaxation

24:07

just like imaginary fear creates tension

24:15

so my ankles feel that tingling sensation as well now

24:20

so I go out my lower legs the calves

24:26

and the skin on the outside relaxing everything to the max

24:34

because I'm sitting by this if you're sitting on a chair make sure that those legs are well

24:42

positioned the best position you can possibly make them can never be perfect

24:48

but you can always make them better just like my calves I just need a little bit of adjustment

24:57

and after those calves are relaxed go to your knees

25:04

many people play sports aggressively and that sometimes causes injuries which

25:11

can just cause pain or irritation many years after

25:19

have a feel of your knees with your mind checking out making sure everything is

25:26

free balanced at ease

25:33

and if there is any ankle pain see if you can focus inside like go

25:39

right inside it because from the inside you can spread kindness and that really works

25:46

it relaxes everything takes away the tightness which is caused

25:53

by fear we overprotective sometimes of our body

25:59

we don't even allow our own kindness to penetrate

26:06

and now you go right inside and spread that kindness

26:11

from within and after a while you know what kindness

26:18

is because that's what relaxes everything

26:23

allows healing to happen and you go past your knees up your

26:29

thighs big muscles

26:34

relaxing them to the max

26:40

and if you do it properly you can feel those muscles like my thighs just like

26:46

they're resting on these beautiful soft feather satin covered pillows

26:55

really relaxing being at ease

27:02

and you go from there to the butt even if it's on a chair on a store

27:09

there's always pressure from my body being transferred through

27:14

the butt to my cushion so when you feel that

27:20

try and relax it as much as possible you cannot get rid of it

27:26

but if you relax it and just experience it soon disappears

27:34

you don't have to cure it you care for it and the feeling after a while

27:41

and vanishes from your perception that's how the restlessness is also

27:47

cured or cared for and disappears

27:54

and then I go to my waist and my waist my belt is a bit too tight

28:02

I'm gonna release it a little bit

28:09

all the time the first part of the meditation I don't mind adjusting my body and moving something

28:15

this time I'm just relaxing the belt

28:21

give a bit more ease to the waist

28:27

and then from the waist when the waist is at ease and go up my back

28:34

and very often I realized I needed to stretch my back a

28:39

little give it some strength

28:45

and now I find the optimum position for my own back decision I can maintain easily

28:54

for 45 minutes that's the Timeless meditation

29:00

it feels good

29:11

and I go through the insides of my body starting with the digestive tracts

29:19

they're pretty good today if ever do find any stomachache or any

29:25

aches or pain sir I always pause at that point trying to go as close into that

29:33

discomfort as possible and from the inside out

29:38

spread loving kindness relaxing everything

29:44

the body can heal itself so well given the chance

29:52

they go up through my digestive tracts to the stomach

30:00

that feels fine at the moment if there was an acre or pain I would

30:05

stay with it be kind to it and ease it and it soon vanishes

30:14

and go up the rest of the Torso there's so many organs in there

30:20

especially the lungs making sure that those are at ease

30:29

my lungs breathed by themselves I very rarely tell them how to breathe

30:36

they've been doing that job for 71 years they do it really well

30:42

I have no complaints I trust my lungs to breathe however they

30:48

decide I'm just watching and caring for them

30:57

and they go up past those lungs the heart foreign

31:09

to all those parts of my body

31:17

and then I do get to my shoulders when my shoulders are observed

31:24

so often they are tight my job is to relax and bring them to a

31:31

state of ease so I imagine them just him using the

31:36

imagination I imagine being pulled apart being stretched by two invisible demons

31:45

that's what causes attention there and I tell those two demons let go

31:52

imagine those muscles being released and they

31:58

contract and become really at ease

32:04

no pressure loose and comfortable

32:10

I'm not trying to prove anything just let go relax to the max

32:17

and I go down my arms from my shoulders checking all the muscles

32:24

they elbows and wrists if I find anything there which needs to

32:31

be focused on given some kindness and peace I would always do sir

32:37

get to my hands and my fingers making sure that they are well adjusted

32:45

giving them some special attention and moving those fingers if I need to

32:55

and just caring is something which makes

33:00

these parts of the body unafraid so they can find the optimum position of

33:06

relaxation and they pay me back for my concern

33:13

by relaxing to the max and not causing me any more trouble for

33:18

the whole meditation period and I go back up to my shoulders into my

33:24

neck I just got into the habit of this now just moving my head on top of the neck

33:30

to get the best position for my head on top of the neck

33:38

and then I go to my facial muscles my facial muscles can sometimes look

33:45

tense if I'm worried about something or anxious or afraid or whatever

33:52

your emotions especially the negative emotions are displayed on your face

34:01

so relax all those muscles as best I can

34:07

which also means that the emotions especially any negative emotions

34:14

subside my face feels really at ease

34:26

and then lastly if you want to do this

34:31

I use some imagination because sometimes your brain gets overworked

34:39

on my brain and the brain of a Venable sunnier

34:45

we've both been jet-lagged so our poor brain has been so confused

34:51

about when to sleep so imagine lifting up my skull

34:58

imagine a hinge on the right side opening my skull

35:03

taking out my brain just imagination I'm not really doing this

35:09

I'm putting it in a little basket my special basket where I can take my

35:15

brain out so I can give it a rest imagine's got a mattress on the bottom

35:21

just like a little place where your cat might sleep at night or a little dog

35:27

it's got a lovely mattress on the bottom a little pillow and a nice little duvet or blanket to

35:35

cover it up with to keep it warm I give my brain a chance to take a rest

35:41

for half an hour just imagining that actually helps

35:49

so I've now relaxed my whole body from head to toe

35:58

and I experience it there's a unit one thing all together my

36:05

body or rather the body that bears my name

36:13

and if it's anything else it needs I will grant it that attention and care

36:25

and now it starts to come the beautiful sense of peace

36:31

what I call the Delight of relaxation

36:36

I can feel it now I'm not making this up this is honest

36:42

my body feels so at ease

36:47

and that is is a pleasurable feeling and I focus on that rejoicing it

36:57

and the relaxation always goes deeper

37:06

and all the time I've been with what is happening

37:12

and being kind to it

37:17

allows my body to be so at ease I can leave it alone

37:24

and go to the mind instead of like an object like the

37:29

breath or loving kindness I just notice

37:36

peace and hear all the birds

37:44

the more peaceful and relax your body is the more aware you are of the outside

37:50

and the inside

37:55

and despite the body whatever you're aware of is delightful

38:02

it brings you into this moment with a sense of joy

38:09

now is the most important time I focused on the now to this body

38:15

sweeping what am I aware of right now

38:23

whatever that is that's the most important thing in the whole world

38:29

and what do I do with this I respect this moment

38:35

I care for it I'm at peace with it

38:40

I'm gentle with it whatever comes comes

38:46

I don't fight it I cannot be restless

38:53

when I'm focusing on what's already happening

39:01

with the attitude of care my attention doesn't want to go anywhere

39:06

else is happy to be here because I'm happy with it

39:18

so what are you aware of right now please be gentle with it and care for it

39:26

and it is gentleness and care not Indulgence not attachment not trying

39:32

to get rid of things you find the Mind becomes so peaceful

39:40

the peace becomes stronger

39:50

and once peace becomes stronger than Stillness

39:56

becomes apparent you don't choose Stillness you notice it

40:08

things move less and less and less because they don't need to move

40:15

because you're caring and why doesn't need to run somewhere

40:20

else to find something better he realizes this is as good as it gets

40:34

from the Stillness you may notice

40:39

silence or you don't try and describe this

40:45

moment you don't give it a name

40:50

your mind doesn't take any notes and enjoys this moment

40:59

silently

41:15

if you practice kindness like this The Joy comes

41:22

the comes of the joy the Mind stays

41:27

and restlessness disappears

41:37

I will be quiet now until the end of the meditation class

44:10

foreign

53:19

foreign

58:27

foreign

58:44

thank you

59:19

foreign

59:40

foreign

1:00:23

thank you

1:00:35

he was very close to the meditation and now

1:00:42

how do you feel how peaceful is your mind

1:00:52

how to ease does it feel

1:00:58

and how is your body

1:01:06

oh now having the gong three times to end the meditation

1:01:34

foreign

1:01:50

sometimes in the meditation class it takes a little while for your brain

1:01:57

to get running again so do three questions from here first of

1:02:04

all and then ask if there's any questions from the audience

1:02:10

first of all wow

1:02:15

that's useful as objects are focused on our meditative practice can they be used apart from usual

1:02:22

objects like the breath or feelings of loving kindness matter yes they can be but usually they need to

1:02:30

have like a basic skill in meditation to be able to use a casinos what casinos

1:02:36

are are they usually little discs of light to make them into a disc so their form

1:02:41

is the most simple enough of a Pure Color

1:02:47

just one color not sort of a complicated thing and the job is that you look at

1:02:53

those with your eyes open and then you close your eyes until you can imagine those objects visualize

1:03:01

them as clear as if you had your eyes closed there's a case if you had your eyes open

1:03:08

sorry so as they appear to you with your eyes open You Close Your Eyes they appear to you with your eyes closed

1:03:15

it's like the image of them and then as you focus on that image

1:03:22

that it should hopefully if you're still enough be able to turn into a beautiful nimeter it looks the same sort of color

1:03:30

like say a blue nimeter but it's more blue than blue in other words it's more pure in color

1:03:39

as you keep looking at it for longer and longer it's a way of turning it into a

1:03:44

nimeter but of course it's very rare that people can do those type of meditations

1:03:53

so it's usually if you find you can't do the simple meditations breath or loving kindness or just what I

1:04:00

said now about learning how to be peaceful and just watching what's there and being kind to it if they find those difficult

1:04:08

casino is not sort of another Last Hope for you

1:04:14

so anyway next question imagine your perspective about the plane

1:04:21

did the flying not me confuses me a bit please explain more so I'm struggling to

1:04:26

like to live in a place I'm living now so I would love to fly to bswa

1:04:33

there's just a different perception how long does the flight last

1:04:39

if you go into the present moment it just lasts a moment then honestly you just there in the

1:04:47

moment not worrying how many minutes are there to go Are We There Yet how long

1:04:53

have we gone and then in that moment and it's true

1:04:58

that you sit in that aircraft I can't fly I'm not a bird I don't have

1:05:04

wings but the actual the machine does a flying I just do the sitting

1:05:10

doing this little tube somewhere and then it does the moving I just do

1:05:17

the sitting it's a different way of perceiving things and those different ways of perception

1:05:22

sometimes a trick to being peaceful to being free if for example you have any sickness or

1:05:29

pain you use that as your teacher used to say

1:05:35

if you are a jet lag you know what that's like it

1:05:40

teaches you something to be able to care for your body it's just a bodily thing it's not my problem it's just so much to

1:05:48

make sure that I have enough moments to catch up on my sleep and my rest and

1:05:55

don't expect my mind to be so clear so little by little we find out that

1:06:03

we can accept and embrace whatever is happening to us in life

1:06:09

and if it's unpleasant it's something we learn from it's our teacher

1:06:14

and I find that if I try and avoid it and escape from unpleasant experiences

1:06:20

then I'm ex trying to escape from my duty to learn about how my body works how life Works

1:06:27

how other people work and so there comes a time when you actually welcome

1:06:33

sort of things which you feel are not as clear as they should be even

1:06:40

little things like old age that I often tell this joke that monks

1:06:49

um with like the two beside me here but when I told them I I'm getting old

1:06:54

and they said no you're not getting old ah they're so kind

1:07:01

they said you are old which was more true

1:07:07

so as a 71 year old I'm learning just how to accept the body won't do what it

1:07:15

used to do even 10 years ago and instead of trying to find some magic

1:07:21

formula either exercise or more rest or

1:07:27

eating different foods or taking some concoctions from people who you know try

1:07:34

to make you look younger or be able to act younger instead of doing that we

1:07:39

learn to accept and be at peace from these things we learn from them and that learning and acceptance that

1:07:46

you're not in control of that much when we learn how to let go and not be

1:07:51

in control but be peaceful be kind and be gentle we're actually just learning the best

1:07:59

possible thing we can with whatever we have to deal with and you find sometimes unexpected things

1:08:06

happen when you don't struggle you don't strive

1:08:11

which means you're not wasting energy and the energy which you have you're

1:08:17

really caring for it so it starts to build up

1:08:22

anyway the last question here question from Germany you say to meditate with wanting to attain anything

1:08:28

still you want Jonas and our rupers is there no is there no conflict just sit

1:08:35

watch and don't react how to stay calm when overwhelmed first of all I've mentioned this before

1:08:42

if you want these deep states of meditation jaunders or the immaterial States you will never ever get them

1:08:50

you don't want them you create the causes for them

1:08:56

the Stillness the calm the energy the

1:09:01

joy and then these things happen as a natural result these are not attainments these are

1:09:09

stages of letting go the deeper you let go the more the joy happens

1:09:16

the more you disappear the more that these things just appear

1:09:21

it's almost like default states of the Mind if you have a computer and you click

1:09:28

that Mouse then the computer turns on the more you click it does the more

1:09:33

stuff appears on the screen but when you learn how to not click anything at all

1:09:39

the computer screen goes into the the what's it called the mode

1:09:46

screen saver and then if you don't click anything after the while the screen saver turns

1:09:52

off and disappears it goes all blank but in meditation it gets even better after a while looking at that blank

1:09:58

screen even that blank screen disappears that's a weird stuff but it's so true

1:10:05

you know that old story I keep on reporting but going to that Zen

1:10:10

Monastery many many years ago in the north of England I didn't know what Zen meditation was

1:10:15

but I was just told to keep my eyes open and watch a wall when I was watching that wall

1:10:20

my eyes open at least I knew how to stay in the present moment and be silent that

1:10:27

was so important I knew how to be mindful

1:10:32

that's what present moment awareness and silence means

1:10:37

and then after a little while that wall disappeared

1:10:42

my eyes were open and there's no water anymore all that happened was

1:10:48

that my sense of sight just turned off nothing was moving

1:10:55

and so the war disappeared it was like an ambient sight there is an Ambient sound after a while

1:11:03

you can't hear it anymore an ambient sight a white wall wasn't

1:11:08

moving I wasn't thinking about it I was just watching it and it vanished disappeared

1:11:13

and that's actually how these deep meditation States happen you don't do anything if you want

1:11:20

something you disturb the process you totally disappear

1:11:26

and these things happen that's why that you know there's many people

1:11:31

have their first experiences of these deep meditations unexpectedly

1:11:38

they don't even try they're just a lot of time they're giving up

1:11:43

been meditating for nine days and nothing's happened and so now what's the point they're going to sit there and just do nothing

1:11:50

at last they get the message they get some deep meditation States

1:11:55

it's wonderful to to report those States look at that story of Venable Ananda

1:12:03

the Buddha's Chief attendant now all his life he was trying to get

1:12:09

enlightened wasn't getting anywhere was getting somewhere but not where he wanted to be

1:12:15

and the last day before going to be at a big conference

1:12:21

499 enlightened beings plus Ananda who wasn't enlightened

1:12:27

I often mentioned this how embarrassing could that be you've been with the

1:12:33

Buddha 25 years right next to him and you're still not enlightened come on

1:12:40

so he gave everything it gave her everything he had that night meditated all night

1:12:48

really gave it this 100 effort big mistake

1:12:54

100 effort is not right 100 wisdom 100 kindness 100 Letting Go would be much

1:13:00

better and so when the dawn came he still wasn't enlightened so what to do

1:13:08

so he got up and said an hour or two before the meeting with all the other 499 arrowheads so you know what he did

1:13:15

he decided to go to bed have a nap before the meeting and as before his head hit the pillow

1:13:24

just as he's about to hit the pillar that's when he became the 500th hour Hut

1:13:32

we call that the Ananda method of meditation go to bed

1:13:39

I say that because it's rebellious is it how can you become enlightened

1:13:45

when you go to bed for goodness sake that's Indulgence he'd be meditating all night

1:13:52

like you've been running after the carrot as I said Friday night and then you stop

1:13:58

who's running so fast after that carrot as soon as you stop straight to his mouth another in line

1:14:04

being so anyway that's how these things happen you want them and you get so frustrated

1:14:13

but it's hard to stop wanting can you stop wanting

1:14:20

sometimes we're afraid of stopping wanting so how do we do that

1:14:27

as I mentioned leaving last night mentioned many times wanting is what yourself does

1:14:36

it is a function of a self to want something

1:14:42

to exert control to show it exists and if the sense of self doesn't want

1:14:48

anything for a long period of time it tends to disappear

1:14:53

that's one of the scariest things in life you disappearing

1:15:01

but when you do when you do there's nothing to do anything

1:15:06

you'll sense of self disappeared and that is when things like John has

1:15:12

happened default states of mind no effort

1:15:18

just restraints stop doing things stop interfering with the process

1:15:25

how many times have I taught you how can this water become perfectly still

1:15:32

put it down and wait you cannot decide who wanted to become still

1:15:38

otherwise it's still yet no not yet come on it's coming still how many times have to tell you water but still

1:15:45

you put it down let it go leave it alone the only way you can do that is actually

1:15:51

for you to disappear as long as there's a self there it's always something to be thirsty

1:15:59

always be disturbing that as long as I am we do go

1:16:05

the water gets still anyway that's there's no conflict at all

1:16:12

if you want Joanna's and arupas you'll find it so difficult to get them

1:16:18

I don't know what I'm talking about but they must have answered that

1:16:25

the Deep Stillness and the Jonas and the Deep meditations all stages of you

1:16:31

disappearing you know that's one of the reasons why they're scary

1:16:36

a lot of people I had some good meditators over in UK on zoom and they

1:16:41

were getting scared scared or disappearing

1:16:46

it's like you're losing control wonderful be at peace

1:16:53

like the wind doesn't control anything where does the wind come from

1:16:58

where does the wind go to so there's some things here which

1:17:04

challenges our understanding but eventually

1:17:10

everything stops the beautiful peace and Stillness

1:17:15

and wisdom and freedom okay how about some questions from the floor

1:17:23

the question yes okay one and two okay first of all yes

1:17:29

Mikko isn't it yeah I've got the

1:17:37

oh how is restlessness different from sensual desire

1:17:42

how's restlessness is a form of central desire essential desire starts more

1:17:49

restlessness happening is the mind just wants to be somewhere where it's not

1:17:58

sometimes that is sometimes who will sometimes it's Central desire

1:18:04

imagine you want to be here then desire to be somewhere else

1:18:10

with its Central desire or desire to get out of this doesn't exist

1:18:17

you're not Restless you're still Central desire is thinking if I get over

1:18:23

there if I have you know a nice meal because you're on eight precepts what's your

1:18:29

favorite dinner

1:18:35

when you start thinking about that of course the central desire Makes You Restless and you can't be happy here

1:18:43

you got a thought about something you'd like to eat how do you overcome that once it started

1:18:50

make peace with it and it soon vanishes you fight a war with it

1:18:56

it gets worse it's one of the reasons why Buddhism is a non-conflict religion

1:19:04

fight a war it just makes more and more and more conflict all the time

1:19:10

more tragedies okay anyways another question yeah

1:19:19

must the Seeker exhaust itself in order to dissolve must what exhausts itself

1:19:24

the Seeker the Seeker of um attainments or

1:19:32

China's must say exhaust themselves so what was the question did you hear it

1:19:38

Bobby seeker yes must the Seeker of those attainments exhaust itself in order to

1:19:45

dissolve yeah nobody exhausted itself but see through wisdom

1:19:52

that that's not the way to go that's creating more um

1:19:57

pressure more suffering in its life as the Seeker

1:20:03

I don't know what people seek for but first of all be aware of what you're seeking for

1:20:09

and then it is it attainable after a while you can try this and try

1:20:15

that and eventually you get frustrated for when the Seeker disappears

1:20:22

we don't want anything a Seeker wants something he wants some sort of Truth or some sorts of freedom

1:20:29

and after a while you don't exhaust yourself you realize this is not the way

1:20:34

to go instead of seeking over there or seeking over here over somewhere else you just

1:20:41

look inside you can't really call that seeking is when you stop the seeking this is all that's left

1:20:47

and you go inwards rather than outwards and inwards

1:20:53

a good idea a good example of that I'm just thinking of nice similes was that simile of the driverless bus

1:21:00

when you're in a bus and it's not going where you want to you want this you want that you want to go to some nice place

1:21:06

to live like Jonah land and so tell the bus driver please take

1:21:11

me to drownaland and never takes you there you try to help the your bus driver take

1:21:18

him to the Buddha Society of Western Australia to teach him how to get to Janus and then never works

1:21:25

and so after a while you realize the problem is you're seeking the driver

1:21:32

when it drives all the seeking and eventually in meditation you find eventually find the bus driver's seat

1:21:40

and you find the bus driver's seat is empty there's no one there

1:21:47

so who are you going to tell bus driver seek for this seek for that

1:21:52

there's no one driving the bus so they need to step down in your seat and you shut up

1:21:59

you don't want to go anywhere you don't want to do anything it's hopeless

1:22:05

have you ever notice how your will is really stupid you want something and your bus driver

1:22:12

takes you somewhere else you really think that you know with all

1:22:17

these years you've been alive you must be smarter

1:22:22

be your best driver for your will when it's not there

1:22:28

you can sit down and relax no desire

1:22:34

or that shouting out giving instructions being the backseat driver doesn't work

1:22:43

and you disappear make any sense

1:22:51

a couple of people are nodding because they're very kind or they're falling asleep I don't know

1:22:57

which one Okay so we've gone over for five minutes

1:23:03

so uh we'll now finish it's unless there's some really important questions

1:23:09

okay so if you want to ask another question come up afterwards to ask it so now we'll just pay respects to put it on

1:23:15

the Sangha and then we can go and do what we need to do next


Live chat replay is not available for this video.




Tuesday, August 29, 2023

2019 frankk shows how KN Pe supports correct EBT interpretation of vitakka, 2023 Sujato continues to misinterpret KN Pe

 


Frankk wrote this 4 years ago:

Wednesday, September 18, 2019


in 2023, august 22,  Sujato continues to misinterpret KN Pe :

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/what-is-vitakka-and-vicara/3148/24

The point of the sutta is to show that even wholesome thinking is an obstruction to jhana.

I know you’re just trying to understand the suttas, but ask yourself. Do you imagine that the sages of course renounced everything, leaving behind kingdoms and families to live in a cave in the mountains just so they could … sit and think? That this would be a state the Buddha would compare to Nibbana, and call it the “higher mind”?

To stop thinking is trivial. It’s not a sign of a deep meditation. I just hung out my washing and stopped thinking. A bit of mindfulness, stay sharp, and thoughts don’t come up. Deep meditation is waaaaaay beyond this.

Thanks for the reference, it’s a fascinating passage, and clearly a precursor for the Visuddhimagga definition of the same thing. I haven’t read this before, or I guess I have, but so long ago I forgot!

Anyway, it doesn’t really same anything about this issue. In terms of definition it just repeats the word vitakka so doesn’t clarify what vitakka is. Then there are a bunch of examples, which are of course illustrative metaphors not definitions.

The actual definition is brief, and it is not so much interested in saying what vitakka is as in differentiating it from vicāra. It’s important, when reading scripture, to not force it to answer the question that you want answered. You have to learn to listen to what it wants to say.

Tattha paṭhamābhinipāto vitakko, paṭiladdhassa vicaraṇaṁ vicāro
Therein vitakka is the first engagement, while vicāra is the exploration of what has been gained.

This is then illustrated with the similes, all of which show the difference between the first engagement or awareness of something and the continual engagement with it.






More on KN Pe vitakka and first jhāna that frankk wrote years ago


Sunday, August 25, 2019




Sunday, February 16, 2020


another V&V bird simile corruption by Vism. with some images


Sunday, May 29, 2022




Sunday, November 29, 2020

This is regarding KN Mil, not KN Pe, but it's a great example of how the simile of bird flying can be interpreted with correct EBT vitakka & vicāra, or Vism's corrupted V&V redefinition. 

At least on a superficial level simile fits both. But when you examine the details a little more closely, then the Vism. simile falls apart.



Forum discussion


https://www.reddit.com/r/theravada/comments/164mjbw/2019_frankk_shows_how_kn_pe_supports_correct_ebt/





Sunday, August 27, 2023

differentiating physical from mental happiness, do pīti and sukha have both components?


https://www.reddit.com/r/EarlyBuddhismMeditati/comments/mrjdq8/comment/jxtdv87/?context=3


I choose to treat the sutta usage of pīti as always mental joy, and sukha (when in context with pīti or jhāna) will be referring to physical pleasure.

Because there are several times when the Buddha qualifies pīti with manassa (mind), and sukha with kāya (body). But I'm not aware of there ever being pīti described with kāyika (bodily).

Sukha on the other hand, in a context where we don't know if it's jhāna,

sukha = sukha vedana, and

sukha vedana = sukha indriya (physical) + so-manassa (mental joy), from SN 48.37.


example 1 mental joy causes physical symptoms of joy 


From real experience with physical and mental happiness, we all know one tends to cause the other to immediatley follow. For example, you feel affection, joy from getting something you want, it starts with mentally originated joy, but immediatley your body responds with warm fuzzies, goose bumps, tingling, pleasant surges of energy flow in the body.

I would call that sa-misa (worldly) pīti, followed immediately by sukha-indriya (physical pleasure),

rather than saying pīti has both a mental and physical component.




example two, sukha physical pleasure first, followed by pīti mental joy.


You're on vacation walking on the beach dipping your toes in the ocean. You feel physically pleasant sensations of sunshine, coolness of water and breeze, and then that triggers mental happiness (pīti, or somanassa, or pamojja).

So I would characterize it that way, physical sensations -> trigger mental sensations -> physical sensations, etc. depending on how your mind reacts each moment,

rather than saying pīti is both physical mental and sukha is both physical and mental.

Why?

Because then the suttas you can't really ever deterimine whether it's talking about the physical part and what is the mental part.

Thursday, August 24, 2023

sleep paralysis, terrifying hallucinatios, ghosts, chills


sarah asked:

I have had sleep paralysis for very long time. Sleep paralysis usually occurs when one is about to fall asleep or when one is about to wake up, during the transitional state between wakefulness and sleep. During a sleep paralysis attack, one will experience temporary paralysis during which one is unable to move or speak. The paralysis may last usually few minutes. While one is paralysed, the individual might also perceive terrifying hallucinations that are made worse with the inability to move or speak. mines were skull floating in the air with fire surrounding it, I also had once been biten my shoulders strongly with black scary animal where I could see his legs on my shoulder.I have also had seen images of certain unknown animal figure face when I closed my eyes and suddenly had sleep paralysis.I usually don't hallucinate instead I experience strong pressure through out my head and some strong sounds throughout the sleep paralysis episodes I dealt.


frankk response:

https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/49233/what-is-sleep-paralysis-in-buddhism-view-can-it-be-ghosts-demonic-entities-or-o/49238#49238


I downvoted several messages on this thread, not because your answers are not applicable in other situations, because you didn't qualify your answers carefully and are gaslighting the OP.

Some things are just psychological, but there are interactions with petas (ghosts), yakhas, etc. where one can experience sleep paralysis, getting high pressure/ force applied to chest, body parts feeling like you're suffocating, a cold chill going down your spine preventing you from sleeping, or just outright possession of your body/mind for periods of time by other beings (much less common).

Most people have no experience with any of the above, but if you've spent enough time in serious forest monasteries or living alone in the wilderness, you and/or people around you are going to have those kinds of interactions. Read Ajahn Mun biography for many examples.

I myself was on a retreat near the himalayas with monks and nuns, and at least 10 of us were disturbed by yakkha(s). I didn't have sleep paralysis in that ocassion, and I'm not sure if the other monks and nuns did either. But we experienced the typical ghost/yakkha things of cold chills, getting pressed with great force into the bed, weird or terrifying visions and dreams.

The more interesting question IMO, is how do you prevent these kinds of problems from happening?

What I've found, is that the stronger your internal energy gets, not just your biological immune system gets stronger, but your psychic immune system against mental stress, ghost and yakkha interacitons also strengthens greatly.

The way to build up internal energy, is a proper combination of meditation and physical exercise, healthy eating, every day.

 


Wednesday, August 23, 2023

sujato translation error AN 6.72

Where I highlighted 'skilled', it should be "NOT skilled"

 

AN 6.72: Balasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net)



 What six?

Katamehi chahi?It’s when a mendicant is not skilled in entering immersion, skilled in remaining in immersion, or skilled in emerging from immersion. And they don’t practice carefully and persistently, and they don’t do what’s suitable.Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu na samādhissa samāpattikusalo hoti, na samādhissa ṭhitikusalo hoti, na samādhissa vuṭṭhānakusalo hoti, asakkaccakārī ca hoti, asātaccakārī ca, asappāyakārī ca.A mendicant who has these six qualities can’t attain strength in immersion.Imehi kho, bhikkhave, chahi dhammehi samannāgato bhikkhu


Tracking other errors here:




Bodhi's translation for comparison, reformatted neatly so errors are easy to spot


6.72 – AN 6.72 (8) Strength


“Bhikkhus, possessing six qualities a bhikkhu is incapable of attaining strength in concentration.
What six?
(1) Here, a bhikkhu is not skilled in the attainment of concentration;
(2) he is not skilled in the duration of concentration;
(3) he is not skilled in emergence from concentration;
(4) he does not practice carefully;
(5) he does not practice persistently;
and (6) he does not do what is suitable.
Possessing these six qualities, a bhikkhu is incapable of attaining strength in concentration.

“Bhikkhus, possessing six qualities a bhikkhu is capable of attaining strength in concentration.
What six?
[428] (1) Here, a bhikkhu is skilled in the attainment of concentration;
(2) he is skilled in the duration of concentration;
(3) he is skilled in emergence from concentration;
(4) he practices carefully;
(5) he practices persistently;
and (6) he does what is suitable.
Possessing these six qualities, a bhikkhu is capable of attaining strength in concentration.”


I've caught a number of Sujato translation errors in other suttas that are a result of...


Trying to really shave words off  English translation being concise and fluent.
Whereas Bodhi above, is less fluent and follows the oral tradition boring matrix style of listing things.

The boring style is less fluent, but it aids in memorization (important for oral tradition), and also makes it easy to spot and catch errors in accuracy of memorized Dhamma.

I'm not trying to be negatively critical of Sujato here, since concision and fluency has its proper place and tiime.