SN 4.25 Māra's daughters talk to Buddha and try to seduce him WHILE he is in Jhāna

 

4.25 - SN 4.25 Māra-dhītu: Māra’s Daughters

(2024 SP-FLUENT translation by frankk‍ derived from B. Sujato‍ )

    SN ^4.25 - SN 4.25 Māra-dhītu: Māra’s Daughters
        SN ^4.25.1 - (Māra feeling sad being defeated by Buddha)
            SN ^4.25.1.2 – (obsessive singular focus on depression is also called “jhāna”)
        SN ^4.25.2 - (three daughters approach Buddha)
        SN ^4.25.3 - (...in the form of 100 maidens to try do seduce him)
        SN ^4.25.4 - (...in the form of different kinds of women)
        SN ^4.25.5 - (all attempts to seduce fail)
        SN ^4.25.6 - (then daughters ask Buddha some questions)
            SN ^4.25.6.1 – (Buddha describes jhāna as embodied, doing vipassana, realizing Dhamma while in jhāna)
        SN ^4.25.7 - (daughters report back to Māra)

Excerpt

Atha kho arati māradhītā bhagavantaṃ gāthāya ajjhabhāsi:

Then Māra’s daughter Discontent addressed the Buddha in verse:

(verse)

“Kathaṃvihārībahulodha bhikkhu,	“How does a monk who has crossed five floods [of defilements at 5 sense doors]
Pañcoghatiṇṇo atarīdha chaṭṭhaṃ;	usually meditate here while crossing the sixth?
Kathaṃ jhāyiṃ bahulaṃ kāmasaññā,	How do they usually practice jhāna so that sensual perceptions
Paribāhirā honti aladdha yo tan”ti.	are warded off and don’t get hold of them?”

4.25.6.1 – (Buddha describes jhāna as embodied, doing vipassana, realizing Dhamma while in jhāna)

(Buddha responds)

“Passaddhakāyo suvimuttacitto,	“With pacified body and mind well freed,
Asaṅkharāno satimā anoko;	without making plans, remembering and applying [Dharma] , homeless;
Aññāya dhammaṃ avitakkajhāyī,	understanding The Dharma, they practice jhāna without directed-thought;
Na kuppati na sarati na thino.	they’re not shaking or drifting or rigid.
Evaṃvihārībahulodha bhikkhu,	That’s how a monk who has crossed five floods
Pañcoghatiṇṇo atarīdha chaṭṭhaṃ;	usually meditates here while crossing the sixth.
Evaṃ jhāyiṃ bahulaṃ kāmasaññā,	That’s how they usually practice jhāna so that sensual perceptions
Paribāhirā honti aladdha yo tan”ti.	are warded off and don’t get hold of them.”

(end of verse)

Conclusion

It's hard to see how a Visuddhimagga apologist or a brahm'splainer could sophstricate, use sophistry to weasel their way out of this sutta, 

in attempting to explain how it's actually describing a "Jhāna" of disembodied frozen stupor.

It says sensual perceptions (kāma-sañña) are active and perceivable in that jhāna,

which must be second through fourth jhāna since it is without vitakka (verbal thought).

Now if jhāna were supposed to be a frozen mental stupor, sensual perceptions would not be POSSIBLE to even arise.

So why does the sutta talk about warding off those perceptions that they can't grab hold of the meditator WHILE they're in that jhāna?

Not having verbal thought doesn't mean the mind is frozen.

Sati and sampajāno (discernment faculty) still do subverbal mental processing in jhāna 2 through 4.

It explicitly says in the passage, Aññāya dhammaṃ, understanding the Dhamma WHILE in that jhāna.

In other words, one is doing vipassana WHILE in jhāna, just as MN 111, AN 9.36 explicitly describe in detail.

It also says at the beginning, the jhāna meditator is already partially enlightened (having crossed 5 floods), and WHILE in jhāna is working on crossing the 6th.

It doesn't say, one resolves to enter [a corrupted] "jhāna" that is a disembodied frozen stupor,

where sensual perceptions are not possible, 

vipassana is not possible,

and after emerging from this frozen state,

only then can one do vipassana.

How do you know the Buddha was in 4 jhānas, and not formless samādhi?

Because the keywords Passaddha-kāyo (pacified body) and a-vitakka means it has to be second, third, or 4th jhāna.

See SN 36.11, where the progressive pacifications (passaddhi) only contain 4 jhānas,

and exclude the formless attainments.

Whereas the other 2 lists, contain all 9 attainments.

And as we know, from the sutta references in the next section, named in 24/7 samādhi ^5.1 ,

one can hear sounds in the 4 jhānas, 

but not the formless attainments.

 But where does it explicitly say the daughters are talking to him WHILE he is in jhāna?

While it's not explicit in SN 4.25, 

consulting other suttas we can see a similar situations where it is explicit about hearing sound and understanding speech WHILE jhāna,

so there's no reason to assume this situation is any different.

24/7 samādhi ⁵ – Book 5: You can hear sounds in all 4 jhānas, not just the first. Which samādhis are silent?
    24/7 samādhi ^5.1 – You can hear sounds in the 4 jhānas. Which samādhis are silent?
    24/7 samādhi ^5.2 – hearing in the four jhānas explicit in these suttas
    24/7 samādhi ^5.3 - These are the only suttas showing no hearing being possible
    24/7 samādhi ^5.4 – Analysis of relevant sutta references (alphabetical)

And here are several very explicit references where Buddha says you should do jhāna and samādhi all the time, all postures, all activities.

Book 3: Samādhi & jhāna all the time 24/7

sutta refs (alphabetical)

KN Iti 45 mindfulness is 24/7, here explicitly sati WITH jhāna: satimanto ca jhāyino;
KN Iti 46 Not just noble ones, Buddha tells all disciples to do enjoy jhāna and be in samādhi all the time, tasmā sadā jhānaratā samāhitā
KN Iti 81 jhāna all the time, jhāyinaṁ sātatikaṁ
MN ^125.3.10 since sati is 24/7, and here sati with no kāma-vitakka/thoughts of sensuality = first jhāna, jhāna is also 24/7
KN Thag 15.2 nāga (elephant and jhāna meditator) always in samādhi, all postures
KN Thag 16.7 jhāna while eating, walking and interacting with people on almsround

SN ^4.23 arahant described by Buddha as always enjoying jhāna, jhāyī jhānarato sadā; 🔗📝
SN ^7.9 fire metaphor for jhāna, always blazing in samādhi, Buddha always in samādhi, Nicc-agginī nicca-samāhitatto
SN ^21.1 defines noble silence as second jhāna. Since monks when together are told to either “talk about dhamma, or abide in noble silence, you'd expect monks to be standing or walking with eyes open in many of those contexts.

Those are lots more references showing jhāna in all postures and activities:

♾️ 24/7 samādhi .