muditā as brahma-vihāra: joy opposes dissatisfaction, not weird Abhidhammic "envy opposing jealously"

 

Re: The translation of Muditā

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Post by frank k » Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:09 am

balaputradeva wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:40 am

Dhammanando wrote: ↑Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:03 amThis is not to say that joy doesn’t arise on account of one’s own sampattis, but merely that ‘joy’ in this case would be a term for something other than muditā. Whereas muditā is always reckoned as wholesome (except when occurring in the kiriyācittas of an arahant, when it is merely functional), the joy that arise in connection with one’s own sampattis may be wholesome or unwholesome. If, for example, you win the lottery and joy arises as you dream of all the ways you’ll now be able to indulge yourself, then this would be unwholesome pīti and sukha. But if joy arises as you contemplate all the gifts that you now plan to give people, then it would be wholesome pīti and sukha. In neither case would the joy be termed muditā.

Then, how about being mudita for someone happiness form successful rob bank, get money from telling lies, murder, etc? Is this also called mudita?
Thanks

Re-reading this thread, I notice another problem with Dhammanando's analysis on page 1:

None of the occurrences of the term in the Sutta Pitaka is accompanied by any definition as such. However, the abhidhammic identification of muditā as a state opposed to arati is supported in the Dasuttara Sutta:

Or he might say, "I have developed the emancipation of the heart through sympathetic joy, and yet resentment still grips my heart..." He should be told, "No! Do not say that! Do not misrepresent the Blessed Lord, it is not right to slander him thus, for he would not have said such a thing! Your words are unfounded and impossible. If you develop the emancipation of the heart through sympathetic joy, resentment has no chance to envelop your heart. This emancipation through sympathetic joy is the cure for resentment."

arati is not envy or 'resentment' as he translates above, in opposition to mudita.
He's clearly influenced by commentary and Abhidhamma.
arati is:

fem. dissatisfaction; dislike; discontent; aversion; boredom; lit. non-delight [na > a + √ram + ti] ✓

joy is what opposes dissatisfaction, not a weirdly specific non-envy to oppose envy/resentment.

If you see my analysis here,
http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/20 ... -what.html
AN 5.162 is the sutta that really gives an authoratative definition and context for mudita as a brahmavihara, and supports my conclusion from the previous post.
That mudita as a brahmavihara is no different that pīti+pamojja -pa-mudita causal chain in the 7 awakening factor sequence.
That rejoicing in skillful dharmas can be directed at oneself, others, both, etc.