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KN Pe section describing defects of four jhānas and formless attainments, show that kāya = physical body and rūpa = physical body


In the first jhāna section, it's contrasting body (kāya) against citta, and also the suttas (MN 19) also uses almost similar type of statement to contrast body getting tired when mind is over excited.

If 'kāya' was  "body of mental only factors", then there would be no contrast with 'citta' (mind). 

So Abhdhamma (they redefine kāya as 'body of mind' in Vb 12 third jhāna gloss), Ajahn Brahm, Sujato, are at odds with their Elders who composed KN Pe. 


For the fourth jhāna defects, it mentions coarse and subtle perceptions of rūpa (material form! not "visions" or "sights").

This tracks with the meditator experience of the body fading away through the four jhānas, but not disappearing (5 senses not getting completely shut off), also with the idea of a subtle body, experienced as a gooey magnetic force that pervades the body and often have currents of energy that don't match ateries, veins, etc.  In other words, when the Tv Subcommentary talks about a subtle non physical body, they're talking about this, and you can experience this in your waking ordinary consciousness, no need to enter a formless state to touch this, as any expert meditator or qigong practitioner knows.


KN Pe : petako padesa

 

Evaṃ bhāvayantassa ayaṃ ādīnavo.
608. (viii) For one who keeps [it] in being thus, the disappointment is as follows.1
Paṭhame jhāne saṅkhārasamannāgato eso dhammo assuto sāsavo.
(1) In the case of the first meditation: this idea possesses determinations, this idea is still unpurified (?), 2 and 2 has taints,
Sace esa dhammo ayaṃ sīlo āsannapaṭipakkho ca esa dhammo kāmo paticāro pativicāro samāpattīnaṃ ca sabboḷāriko esa dhammo vitakkavicāro ca.
this idea has this habit(?) and has a near-opposite, this idea has sensual desire to shadow [and] haunt [it],3 and it is the grossest of all the attainments. It has thinking and exploring
Tattha cittaṃ khobhenti, kāyo cettha kilamati, kāyamhi cettha kilante cittaṃ vihaññati.
[which still] disturb cognizance,4 and the body [still] gets tired there, and when the body gets tired cognizance is harrassed, 5
Anabhinīhārakkhamova abhiññānaṃ ime ādīnavā paṭhame jhāne.
and the body is unamenable to directive management for the [five worldly] kinds of supernormal acquaintance. These are the disappointments in the first meditation.
Dutiye jhāne ime ādīnavā pītipharaṇasahagato ca eso dhammo, na samudācārasseti cittaṃ.
609. (2) In the case of the second meditation the disappointments are these : this idea is accompanied by the extension 1 of happiness ; [while] cognizance is no longer accessible to disturbance 2 by thinking and exploring(?) 2
Asodhayaṃ upagamo cesa dhammo upagamiparissayo [upagamiparicayo (pī.)] domanassapaccatthiko cesa dhammo.
[yet] this idea [still] has a danger that has access 3 to it, [for] this idea has grief for its enemy;
Tattha tattha yuttīnaṃ pīti parajjato cesa dhammo dukkaraṃ hoti, avattasantāsabhūmiparivajjayanto catūsu dukkhatāsu esa dhammo anuviddhāpanasaddhāya [anuviddhā passatiyā (pī.)] dukkhatāya ca na palibodhadukkhatāya ca abhiññādukkhatāya ca rogadukkhatāya ca, ime ādīnavā dutiye jhāne.
[and] this idea is at the mercy 4 of the happiness [belonging] to the associated [ideas] there, [and accordingly] it has difficulty 5 in avoiding the plane of anxiety about the non-occurrence [of the ceased happiness(?)], and this idea, in regard to the four kinds of painfulness, is interpenetrated by [them,] namely by the painfulness in fear, 5 by the painfulness in impediment, 6 by the painfulness in acquaintance, 7 and by the painfulness in lust. These are the disappointments in the second meditation.
Tattha katame ādīnavā tatiye jhāne?
610. (3) Herein, what is the disappointment in the third meditation?
Upekkhāsukhasahagatāya tattha sātāvīnaṃ pañcannaṃ upekkhāsukhaṃ parivattito esa dhammo tena niccasaññitānañca yaṃ hoti.
Owing to its state of being accompanied by pleasure-due-to- onlooking-equanimity, 1 this idea is subordinate 1 to the onlooking- equanimity pleasure [belonging to] the perceptions (? ) 1 possessing the liking there(?
Dukkhopaniyaṃ sukhaṃ cittassa saṅkhobhataṃ upādāya sukhadukkhāya gato savati.
), hence the pleasure [there] is constantly perceived as accessible to pain, [and so] on account of the disturbance of cognizance it goes with 1 pleasure and pain,
Sukhadukkhānukatañca upādāya anabhihārakkhamaṃ cittaṃ hoti.
and on account of its [still] going with pleasure and pain, cognizance is [still] unamenable to directive management 1
Abhiññāya sacchikiriyāsu sabbepi cete dhammā tīsu jhānasamāpattīsu catūhi ca dukkhatāhi anuviddhānaṃ sā bhayā dukkhatāya palibodhadukkhatāya ca abhiññāya dukkhatāya ca ime ādīnavā tatiye jhāne.
for the verification of the five worldly supernormal acquaintances, and all these ideas, in regard to the [first] three meditation-attainments, are interpenetrated 1 by the four painfulnesses, namely by the painfulness in fear, 1 by the painfulness in impediment, by the painfi1lness in acquaintance, and by the painfulness in lust.1 These are the disappointments in the third meditation.
Tattha katame ādīnavā catutthe jhāne?
611. (4) What is the disappointment in the fourth meditation?
Ākiñcaññāsamāpattikā te dhammānusamāpattikā etissā ca bhūmiyaṃ sātānaṃ bālaputhujjanānaṃ anekavidhāni diṭṭhigatāni uppajjanti.
Up to the Non-Owning Attainment these ideas have further co-attainments,1 and on that plane various types of views arise in foolish ordinary men who like [them] (cf. A. i, 206).
Oḷārikā sukhumehi ca rūpasaññāhi anuvidhāni etāni jhānāni sadā anudayamettājhānakalānudanukalāya sādhāraṇā, dukkarā ca sabbe cattāro mahāsambhārā samudāgatāni ca etāni jhānāni aññamaññaṃ nissāya samudāgacchanti.
And the meditations are interpenetrated 2 by gross and subtle perceptions of form. Always a sentimental lovingkindness 4 [etc.] is shared (see § 602 (? )) with each fraction and sub-fraction of meditation, and all the four accessories (§ 604) are difficult. And these meditations come about [through something else] (§ 605), each coming about in dependence on another [below it],
Ettha samudāgatā ca ete dhammā na samattā honti.
and when come about here these ideas are [still] uncompleted,
Asamuggahitanimittā ca ete dhammā parihāyanti.
and with the sign not properly taken up 6 these ideas fall away.
Nirujjhanti ca ete dhammā na upādiyanti nirujjhaṅgāni ca, etesaṃ dhammānaṃ jhānāni nimittāni na jhānanimittasaññā vokirati.
And [since] these ideas are cessative (cf.§§ 589, 596), 6 they do not arouse [emergent qualities]. 7 The meditations belonging to these ideas have factors of [successive] cessation, and the signs 8 may not be conformable [with(?)] the meditation-sign perception,
Appaṭiladdhapubbā ca jhāyīvasena ca bhavati [jhāyī ca vasena ca bhavati (pī. ka.)].
and that [perception] comes about as something not previously obtained and [only] in virtue of the [right type of] meditator.9
Imehi ādīnavehi ayaṃ jhānaparihāni.
612. (ix) With these disappointments the falling away from the meditation is this.
77.Nirodhasamāpattiyā apaṭisaṅkhāya avasesasaññino ākiñcaññāyatanasahagatā saññāmanasikārā samudācaranti, so nirodhasamāpattito parihāyati.
In one who has some residual perception [while in the fourth Formless State], by his not deliberating upon the cessation- attainment 1 (see M. i, 296-7, 301-2; D. ii, 71), perception and attention 2 accompanying the Base Consisting of Non-owning [which is the third Formless State] take place in him, [and so] he falls away from the cessation-attainment (cf. Vis. 707-8).
Āneñjasaññino asaññāyatanaṃ samāpannassa ākiñcaññāyatanasahagatā manasikārā samudācaranti, tañca bhūmiṃ na pajānāti, so tato parihāyati.
In one who, being percipient of imperturbability 3 (see M. Sutta 106, etc.), has entered upon the Non-percipient Base (see D. ii, 69, 1. 21), [perception and] attention 2 accompanying the Base-Consisting-of-Non-Owning 3 take place' in him, and since he does not understand that plane he falls away from it.
Ākiñcaññāyatanaṃ samāpannassa viññāṇañcāyatanasaññā manasikārā samudācaranti, tañca bhūmiṃ na pajānāti, so tato parihāyati.
In one who has entered upon [the third Formless State, namely] the Base-Consisting-of-Non-Owning perception and attention 2 [accompanying] the Base-Consisting-of-Infiniteness-of-Consciousness take place in him, and since he does not understand that plane he falls away from it.
Viññāṇañcāyatanaṃ samāpannassa rūpasaññāsahagatā.
In one who has entered upon [the second Formless State, namely] the Base-Consisting-of-Infiniteness-of-Consciousness [perception and attention] accompanied by perception of form 4 ...
Vitthārena - pe - yāva paṭhame jhāne kāmasaññāsahagatā kātabbā.
in detail down to ... in the first meditation perception of sensual desire ... can be cited.


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