notes on the Dhamma: handy link to correct mikenz spam botting jhāna information

Re: Absorption Jhana vs. Aware Jhana

Post by frank k » Wed Oct 18, 2023 2:38 am

mikenz66 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:55 amHi Emptyset,

This is a frequently-argued question and it is unfortunate that is is sometimes expressed as "sutta vs visuddhimagga".

Several discussions of how "absorbed" the jhana that the Buddha taught, based on early texts, are linked by Ven Dhammanando's post here:
viewtopic.php?p=560317#p560317

See also Bhikkhu Analayo: "A Brief History of Buddhist Absorption", Mindfulness, 2020, 11.3: 571–586. https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... yjhana.pdf

Mike

Deja Vu.
Mike, are you a real person, or an AI bot spamming fake news/misinformation on jhāna whenever the topic comes up?
We've had this exact same discussion many times now.
I've shown in detail how Analayo's understanding of jhāna in his book you quoted is based on fallacious reasoning here:
https://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/ ... index.html
(in short, Analayo uses circular reasoning. Like saying the Bible is true because God said so in the bible.)

I've done a very detailed analysis of how the Buddha's jhāna is radically different than Buddhaghosa's redefinition of jhāna in Vism. here:
https://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/ ... index.html

The threads you link from Ven. Dhammando are not only outdated, but biased with proponents of the Vism. redefinition of jhāna who cherry pick a handful of passages and ignoring the bulk of sutta passages that contradict them.

I have comprehensive research on every single instance of vitakka in the suttas here:
https://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/ ... index.html
which show that in first jhāna they must be linguistic, verbal, communicable language.

All the suttas on hearing sounds (and mentally processing them) is here:
https://lucid24.org/tped/s/samadhi/smd247/index.html#5
Just reading one sutta alone, DN 21, which explicitly states the Buddha being interrupted while in 'jhāna' by a musician singing,
is enough to show the 'sutta jhāna' and Vism.'s redefined "jhāna" are qualitatively completely different animals.
https://lucid24.org/dn/main/dn21/index.html#tophead
I annotate exactly where the jhāna and hearing are happening in DN 21 so even Mike can't miss it.

And the collection of sutta passages analyzed here show the Buddha's jhāna can not be a frozen disembodied stupor as Vism. redefines it.
https://lucid24.org/tped/s/samadhi/smd2 ... ml#tophead
24/7 samādhi 1 – Book 1: 4 Jhānas

≈ 4 Satipaṭṭhāna

24/7 samādhi 2 – Book 2: Jhāna

+ samādhi in all 4 postures

24/7 samādhi 3 – Book 3: Samādhi & jhāna all the time 24/7
24/7 samādhi 4 – Book 4: Upasampajja Viharati: Attains and lives doing Jhāna samādhi
24/7 samādhi 5 – Book 5: You can hear