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Ordination is a gamble? incurring karmic debt if one doesn't attain noble fruits

 

Re: Ordination is a gamble

Post by frank k » 

HappyBuddhist wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 5:25 pmJust throwing out some thoughts for discussion:

I've been contemplating about ordination, and it dawned on me that it's a gamble -

By being completely dependent on other people's generosity for basic living, a monk incurs karmic debt. If he doesn't attain noble fruits within this life time, this debt would mature in a future life time.

(If he does attain noble fruits, then this doesn't really matter, of course)

So maybe it's a safer option to practice as a layman.
Demerit and/or debts are commensurate with how sincere and diligent your practice is, not whether you attain noble fruits in this life time.
Don't underestimate the value of monastics who keep sila purely, are virtuous, but don't attian noble fruit in this life.
The merit from that is enormous.
Similar to seeing repeated advertisements on televison.
When you come into contact with virtuous, happy monastics, it's like an advertisement that encourages you to behave likewise.

Contrast that with contact with virtuous happy lay person.
It's similar, but there's much more added power when they're wearing the robes.

Another example.
Consider a mostly virtuous monastic who propogates a corrupted Dharma,
versus a layperson who propogates an uncorrupted Dharma, and blows the whistle on said monastics who corrupt Dhamma.
Assume they have the same number of years and decades of practice in the Dhamma.

Who has greater influence?
A well liked monastic wearing robes is going to automatically have much greater credibility over the layperson, even if their Dhamma is corrupted.
Just as people are going to look at a Phd degree or other credential and immediately believe they're more qualified than someone with only an undergraduate degree or high school diploma.



You're not seeing the real 'gamble'

Re: Ordination is a gamble

Post by frank k » 

If you (anyone considering ordinaton) are going to call it a 'gamble',
you're looking at it completely wrong.

If you're considering ordination with a good organization,
the real gamble and question you should be asking yourself, can you afford not to ordain?

If you ordain, and later find that the laylife is too hard to resist, you can always disrobe.

But if you don't ordain, when you maybe only had one good opportunity in this life to taste the pure, holy life,
to plant seeds and possibliy establish an irreversible path to nirvana,
and instead revolve in samsara for the next 100 lives missing this opportunity,
don't you think you would regret that?


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