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MN 19 and agama || MA 102 two sorts of thoughts in first jhāna, and out, even Abhidhamma does not contradict this, what are Sujato and Brahm 'thinking'?

 

● MN 19 - 🔗🔊 24m, Dve-dhā-vitakka: two-sorts-of-thinking

     MN 191 (divide thoughts into 2 groups, good and bad)
    MN 192 (how to handle 3 types of wrong thoughts)
        MN 192.10 (V&V quality of thinking “bends” mind into habit)
        MN 192.11 (simile of cowherd busy)
    MN 193 (how to handle 3 types of good thoughts)
        MN 193.1 (renunciation in opposition to kāma/lust)
        MN 193.1.3 (first jhāna blocked by tired body)
        MN 193.1.5 (code phrase for “attempt 4 jhānas”)
        MN 193.10 (reiteration: quality of V&V thinking “bends” mind into habit)
        MN 193.11 (simile of cowherd relaxed in jhāna)
    MN 194 (code phrase for successful entry into 4 jhānas)
    MN 195 (Buddhist redefinition of Brahmin 3 Vedas (te-vijja))
    MN 196 (simile: mara wants to kill deer, buddha wants to lead them to safety)


The two suttas are extremely simlilar, differences are minor.

MA 102 念: Two sorts of thinking (in first jhāna, and out)

MA 102 T 26.102 念 T i 589a11 MN 19
    MA 1021 (divide thoughts into 2 groups, good and bad)
        MA 1021.1 (bad: 3 counterparts of right resolve)
        MA 1022.11 (simile of cowherd keeping cows in line with stick)
        MA 1022.10 (V&V quality of thinking “bends” mind into habit)
    MA 1023 (how to handle 3 types of good thoughts)
        MA 1023.1.3 (first jhāna blocked by tired body)
    MA 1024.1 (This is first jhana, replacing standard STED formula)
        MA 1024.1.5 (Allow myself thoughts about Dharma)
        MA 1023.11 (simile of cowherd sitting with peaceful thought of just, “cow”)
        MA 1023.10 (reiteration: quality of V&V thinking “bends” mind into habit, this time good)
    MA 1024.2 (Skip to STED Second Jhana because Dhamma Vitakka above is first jhana!)
    MA 1025 (purified, imperturbable 4th jhana directed to realize nirvana)
    MA 1026 (simile of deer hunter)


comments

One interesting and notable difference is MA 102 omits first jhāna stanard formula, to emphasize that the previous section IS first jhāna.

This is similar to how EBT Theravada omits first jhāna from MN 125 and adds an extra satipaṭṭhāna section with the same 3 types of thoughts as MN 19.


● MN 125 - 🔗🔊 28m, Danta-bhūmi🐘: Tamed-level: 🔗📝

        Gradual training of monk using simile of training wild elephant. Highlights:
        MN 1251 - (prince J. doesn’t think that teaching can lead to ekagga citta)
        MN 1251.1 - (simile of well trained elephants)
        MN 1251.2 - (simile of standing on mountain seeing clearly)
        MN 1253.1.1 - (simile: new monk has 5kg desire ordains → elephant still desires pleasures of being wild in forest)
        MN 1253.9.1 - (simile: 4sp satipaṭṭhāna nonstop,to subdue thoughts of household and delight in Dharma thoughts → elephant tied to post to keep it from returning to forest, and grow to like men and fortress)
        MN 1253.10.1 - (simile: 4sp satipaṭṭhāna again without kama = first jhāna → elephant trained to like and follow commands for good war elephant)
        MN 1253.10.2 - (note grass, water, firewood is simile for first jhāna from AN 7.67 )
        MN 1253.11 - (skip 1st jhāna, go directly to 2nd jhāna, since the previous stage of satipaṭṭhāna was first jhāna!)
        MN 1253.11.1 - (simile: monk developing 2nd through 4th jhāna → elephant tied up so it can’t move while training to be imperturbable to simulated weapons and battle stress)
        MN 1255.1 - (simile: successful monk with imperturbable 4th jhāna withstands cold, heat, mosquitoes → elephant in live battle struck by spears, swords, arrows)


If you can think in satipaṭṭhāna ("mindfulness"), then you can think in first jhāna.

Even Abhidhamma vibhanga (book 2 of 7) does not contradict this.

It's hundreds of years later, with Vism., and then thousands of years later, with Brahm, Sujato, Analayo, where they contradict the suttas above and redefine vitakka and vicāra as "not thinking", instead "placing the mind and keeping it connected [to a breath nimitta or kasina]", in a disembodied frozen stupor.

As MN 125 shows, if you can think and have body awareness in satipaṭṭhāna ("mindfulness"), you can do that in first jhāna as well.



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