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MN 8 Sujato encouraging us to extinguish others if we become an arahant?

 

MN 8: Sallekhasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net)


Truly, Cunda, if you’re sinking down in the mud you can’t pull out someone else who is also sinking down in the mud.So vata, cunda, attanā palipapalipanno paraṁ palipapalipannaṁ uddharissatīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.But if you’re not sinking down in the mud you can pull out someone else who is sinking down in the mud.So vata, cunda, attanā apalipapalipanno paraṁ palipapalipannaṁ uddharissatīti ṭhānametaṁ vijjati.Truly, if you’re not tamed, trained, and extinguished you can’t tame, train, and extinguish someone else.So vata, cunda, attanā adanto avinīto aparinibbuto paraṁ damessati vinessati parinibbāpessatīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.But if you’re tamed, trained, and extinguished you can tame, train, and extinguish someone else.So vata, cunda, attanā danto vinīto parinibbuto paraṁ damessati vinessati parinibbāpessatīti ṭhānametaṁ vijjati.


frankk comment:

Nirvana means 'extinguished', like a fire going out, or thirst being extinguished.

Sujato's reason for literal translation of nirvana = extinguishment, is that most people have unhealthy metaphysical wrong views about 'nirvana'.

He has a point. However.

While I often do like literal translations, and as far as I can tell he's been very consistent with 'extinguish' everywhere in his suttas, this translation choice has two major problems.

1. In many suttas, most readers don't realize 'extinguish' is referring to a special property of 'nirvana', freedom from all suffering forever, that the sutta has just announced the accomplishment of the ultimate goal.

2. As in this sutta MN 8 passage shows, it reads like a violent command to kill others. In other suttas, it could sound like suicide to oneself. 


My translation choice is to leave Nirvana untranslated


So vata, cunda, attanā adanto avinīto aparinibbuto paraṃ damessati vinessati parinibbāpessatīti netaṃ ṭhānaṃ vijjati.
Truly, if you’re not tamed, trained, and nirvana'd you can’t tame, train, and nirvanify someone else.
So vata, cunda, attanā danto vinīto parinibbuto paraṃ damessati vinessati parinibbāpessatīti ṭhānametaṃ vijjati.
But if you’re tamed, trained, and nirvana'd you can tame, train, and nirvanify someone else.
Evameva kho, cunda, vihiṃsakassa purisapuggalassa avihiṃsā hoti parinibbānāya, pāṇātipātissa purisapuggalassa pāṇātipātā veramaṇī hoti parinibbānāya.
In the same way, a cruel individual nirvanifyes it by not being cruel. An individual who kills nirvanifyes it by not killing. …


 What do you think?

Does that lead to wrong metaphysical ideas about nirvana that Sujato is worried about? 

I don't say Sujato's translation is wrong, but I find it problematic.


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