First, note that suttas clustered together sequentially often develop a theme that runs through them, so if you were to only read one of the cluster in isolation, you'd miss some important ideas.
MN 19, MN 20, deal with first and second jhana as the primary focus.
MN 18 has some important foundation groundwork that establishes a hierarchy on where thinking (vitakka) fits in, from the most raw sensory data, through proliferation of obsessive complex thinking and building a story and identity around that.
pro·lif·er·ate /prəˈlifəˌrāt/
increase rapidly in numbers; multiply.
Cakkhu + rūpe + viññāṇaṃ → phasso → vedeti (vedanā) → sañjānāti → vitakketi → papañceti
eye + forms + consciousness → contact → feel → perceive → think → proliferate
* So consciousness (viññāṇaṃ) is the most raw sensory data.
* From 12ps (dependent co-origination) we know 6 sense bases (which include physical body) come before contact (phassa).
* experienced-sensation (feeling, vedana) builds on top of consciousness (viññāṇaṃ) and adds more information including physical body. Vedana is usually classified as 3 types: pain, pleasure, neither-pain-nor-pleasure.
* perception (sañña) builds on top of vedana.
* thinking (vitakka) builds on a diversity of perception (sañña) .
* proliferation (papanca) builds on obsessive thinking
* experienced-sensation (feeling, vedana): on initial contact, before perception kicks in, memory kicks in, perhaps vedana is primarily a neutral feeling. Later, after recognizing what you see is a person, not an inanimate object, and a person you know, etc, then perhaps you would experience painful feelings of anger, disgust, etc. While the suttas usually work with 3 types of feelings, sometimes vedana, vedeti, pati-samvedeti, and even with viññāṇa seems to talk about a type of understanding/wisdom/knowing/experiencing that is more complex than raw sensory data.
* perception (sañña): Perception builds on what the vedana "sensed/experienced/felt". So we have perceptions that what we see is a person, a person we know, a liar.
* thinking (vitakka): Here's where the expression vaci-sankhara (thoughts we think before we vocalize them) helps distinguish between perceptions and thinking. The liar perceived by sañña is an instantaneous non-verbal knowing. Vitakka builds on that perception by verbalizing it, with mental labels, imagery, words, usually in the form of communicable speech. "That's lying liar is a bad person who tells lies."
* proliferation (papanca): proliferation builds on the thinking by adding much more thinking and building an identity and narrative around that. "That lying liar has lied to me in the past, probably plans to tell a lie to trick me into doing something I don't want to do. But I'm not going to fall for his lie this time."
And in this sutta AN 4.41, #3 S&S is describing what one can and should do in third jhana, when not in #1 "pleasant abiding mode" to recharge one's energy.
As with MN 18, you see the same hierarchy, from more raw sensory data to the more complex versions with added stuff. Each level of the hierarchy is a higher level of abstraction.
Again, MN 78, like MN 19, MN 20, MN 125, intimately and in detail explaining what's going inside the four jhānas, follows the same hierarchy feeling -> perceptions -> thinking (vitakka and sankappa)
For the second jhana,
Having thought (vitakka) would interrupt and break you out of second jhana, but the underlying perceptions, the non-verbal perceptions bubbling underneath the thought, can still happen and not break you out of second jhana, and even the higher jhanas.
Besides SN 40, there are a few other suttas dealing with impure jhanas with the same idea, and again, perceptions are lower on the hierarchy than thought (vitakka).
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/impure-jhana.html
V&V is the same before, during, and after first jhana.
thinking & evaluation.
They're wrong and they know it. That's why they avoid talking about the EBT suttas I've audited above that provide incontrovertible evidence against their false claims, and they can't provide any evidence in support of it.
MN 19, MN 20, deal with first and second jhana as the primary focus.
MN 18 has some important foundation groundwork that establishes a hierarchy on where thinking (vitakka) fits in, from the most raw sensory data, through proliferation of obsessive complex thinking and building a story and identity around that.
- (buddha talks to dandapani )
- (monks ask buddha to clarify, he only gives brief statement )
- (monks ask maha kaccana to expand on brief statement )
- (maha kaccana explains brief statement )
- (1. Dependent origination of proliferation sequence)
- (2. Proliferation sequence phrased slightly differently)
- (3. Cessation of proliferation sequence)
- (buddha stamps seal of approval on maha kaccana explanation)
Synopsis
Cakkhu + rūpe + viññāṇaṃ → phasso → vedeti (vedanā) → sañjānāti → vitakketi → papañceti
| eye + forms + consciousness → contact → feel → perceive → think → proliferate |
(6aya. Eye base 👁)
Cakkhuñc-āvuso, paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati cakkhu-viññāṇaṃ,
| Eye consciousness arises dependent on the eye and sights. |
tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso,
| The meeting of the three is contact. |
phassa-paccayā vedanā,
| Contact is a condition for feeling. |
yaṃ vedeti taṃ sañjānāti,
| What you feel, you perceive. |
yaṃ sañjānāti taṃ vitakketi,
| What you perceive, you think about. |
yaṃ vitakketi taṃ papañceti,
| What you think about, you proliferate. |
yaṃ papañceti tato-nidānaṃ
| What you proliferate about is the source |
purisaṃ papañca-saññā-saṅkhā samudācaranti
| from which a person is beset by concepts of identity that emerge from the proliferation of perceptions. |
atīt-ānāgata-paccuppannesu cakkhu-viññeyyesu rūpesu.
| This occurs with respect to sights known by the eye in the past, future, and present. |
(same pattern for remaining 6aya. 👁 👂 👃 👅 👆 💭)
eye + forms + consciousness → contact → feel → perceive → think → proliferate
* So consciousness (viññāṇaṃ) is the most raw sensory data.
* From 12ps (dependent co-origination) we know 6 sense bases (which include physical body) come before contact (phassa).
* experienced-sensation (feeling, vedana) builds on top of consciousness (viññāṇaṃ) and adds more information including physical body. Vedana is usually classified as 3 types: pain, pleasure, neither-pain-nor-pleasure.
* perception (sañña) builds on top of vedana.
* thinking (vitakka) builds on a diversity of perception (sañña) .
* proliferation (papanca) builds on obsessive thinking
example 1: you see a person you recognize and know to be a liar
* consciousness (viññāṇaṃ): raw sensory data of external forms you see with the eye. colors, shape, etc.* experienced-sensation (feeling, vedana): on initial contact, before perception kicks in, memory kicks in, perhaps vedana is primarily a neutral feeling. Later, after recognizing what you see is a person, not an inanimate object, and a person you know, etc, then perhaps you would experience painful feelings of anger, disgust, etc. While the suttas usually work with 3 types of feelings, sometimes vedana, vedeti, pati-samvedeti, and even with viññāṇa seems to talk about a type of understanding/wisdom/knowing/experiencing that is more complex than raw sensory data.
* perception (sañña): Perception builds on what the vedana "sensed/experienced/felt". So we have perceptions that what we see is a person, a person we know, a liar.
* thinking (vitakka): Here's where the expression vaci-sankhara (thoughts we think before we vocalize them) helps distinguish between perceptions and thinking. The liar perceived by sañña is an instantaneous non-verbal knowing. Vitakka builds on that perception by verbalizing it, with mental labels, imagery, words, usually in the form of communicable speech. "That's lying liar is a bad person who tells lies."
* proliferation (papanca): proliferation builds on the thinking by adding much more thinking and building an identity and narrative around that. "That lying liar has lied to me in the past, probably plans to tell a lie to trick me into doing something I don't want to do. But I'm not going to fall for his lie this time."
AN 4.41 samādhi-bhāvanā-sutta
- (1. STED Four Jhānas for pleasant abiding now)
- (2. STED smd-asnd: For knowledge and vision)
- (3. For sati and sampajaññāya)
- (4. For destroying Āsava's)
And in this sutta AN 4.41, #3 S&S is describing what one can and should do in third jhana, when not in #1 "pleasant abiding mode" to recharge one's energy.
(3. For sati and sampajaññāya)
Katamā ca, bhikkhave, samādhi-bhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā
| {and} what, *********, concentration-development, when developed (and) pursued, |
Sati-sampajañ-ñāya saṃvattati?
| (to) mindfulness-(and)-clear-comprehension (it) leads? |
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
| Here, monks, a-monk: |
viditā vedanā uppajjanti,
| known (are) feelings (as they) arise, |
viditā upaṭṭhahanti,
| known (as they are) attended-upon, |
viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.
| known (as they) go to} disappear. |
viditā saññā uppajjanti,
| known (are) perceptions (as they) arise, |
viditā upaṭṭhahanti,
| known (as they are) attended-upon, |
viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.
| known (as they) go to} disappear. |
viditā vitakkā uppajjanti,
| known (are) thoughts (as they) arise, |
viditā upaṭṭhahanti,
| known (as they are) attended-upon, |
viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.
| known (as they) go to} disappear. |
Ayaṃ, bhikkhave, samādhi-bhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā
| This, *********, concentration-development, when developed (and) pursued, |
Sati-sampajañ-ñāya saṃvattati.
| mindfulness-(and)-clear-comprehension (it) leads-to. |
As with MN 18, you see the same hierarchy, from more raw sensory data to the more complex versions with added stuff. Each level of the hierarchy is a higher level of abstraction.
MN 78 samaṇa-muṇḍika (the contemplative named mundika)
- (Uggāhamāna's invincible ascetic— no bad body action, word, thought, livelihood)
- (Buddha makes fun of him, compare to baby)
- (Buddha’s ideal ascetic)
- (kusala sīla purified by right effort)
- (3 akusalā saṅkappā exact opposite of 3 aspects of right resolve, lust, ill will, harm)
- (akusalā saṅkappā depend on 3 perceptions based on opposite of right resolves, lust, ill will, harm)
- (akusalā saṅkappā cease in first jhana)
- (right effort does the work of removing kusalā saṅkappā within, and prior to first jhana)
- (3 kusalā saṅkappā are same as 3 aspects of Right Resolve)
- (kusalā saṅkappā depend on the 3 kusala perceptions)
- (kusalā saṅkappā cease in 2nd jhana)
- (right effort removes kusala sankappa from first jhana resulting in no V&V of 2nd jhana)
Again, MN 78, like MN 19, MN 20, MN 125, intimately and in detail explaining what's going inside the four jhānas, follows the same hierarchy feeling -> perceptions -> thinking (vitakka and sankappa)
(kusalā saṅkappā depend on the 3 kusala perceptions)
Ime ca, thapati, kusalā saṅkappā kiṃsamuṭṭhānā? Samuṭṭhānampi nesaṃ vuttaṃ. ‘Saññāsamuṭṭhānā’tissa vacanīyaṃ. Katamā saññā? Saññāpi hi bahū anekavidhā nānappakārakā. Nekkhammasaññā, abyāpādasaññā, avihiṃsāsaññā—itosamuṭṭhānā kusalā saṅkappā.
| And where do these skillful thoughts stem from? Where they stem from has been stated. You should say that they stem from perception. What perception? Perception takes many and diverse forms. Perceptions of renunciation, love, and kindness—skillful thoughts stem from this. |
SN 40 Moggallāna Saṃyutta
- 1. A Question About the First Absorption (1st) 1. Paṭhama-jhāna-pañhā-sutta
- 2. A Question on the Second Absorption (2nd) 2. Dutiya-jhāna-pañhā-sutta
- 3. A Question About the Third Absorption 3. Tatiya-jhāna-pañhā-sutta
- 4. A Question About the Fourth Absorption 4. Catuttha-jhāna-pañhā-sutta
These suttas deal with the impurities that arise when one is learning the jhanas.
Guess what form they arise in?
You got it, perceptions.
For the first jhana, the impurities that interrupt and break one out of first jhana, come in the form of perceptions of sensuality.
For the second jhana,
So khvāhaṃ, āvuso, vitakkavicārānaṃ vūpasamā ajjhattaṃ sampasādanaṃ cetaso ekodibhāvaṃ avitakkaṃ avicāraṃ samādhijaṃ pītisukhaṃ dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharāmi.
| And so … I was entering and remaining in the second jhāna. |
Tassa mayhaṃ, āvuso, iminā vihārena viharato vitakkasahagatā saññāmanasikārā samudācaranti.
| While I was in that meditation, perceptions and attentions accompanied by directing-thought beset me. |
Having thought (vitakka) would interrupt and break you out of second jhana, but the underlying perceptions, the non-verbal perceptions bubbling underneath the thought, can still happen and not break you out of second jhana, and even the higher jhanas.
Besides SN 40, there are a few other suttas dealing with impure jhanas with the same idea, and again, perceptions are lower on the hierarchy than thought (vitakka).
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/impure-jhana.html
conclusion
There is no basis, no evidence in the EBT, for Ajahn Brahm, B. Sujato, B. Analayo claiming that there's a special kind of V&V just for first jhana.V&V is the same before, during, and after first jhana.
thinking & evaluation.
They're wrong and they know it. That's why they avoid talking about the EBT suttas I've audited above that provide incontrovertible evidence against their false claims, and they can't provide any evidence in support of it.
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