Re: Rapture in 7 factors of enlightenment
form wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:57 pmThis is an essential factor that must be present and then discarded?piti (rapture) in 7sb awakening factors is the same as piti in the 4 jhanas.
You can view first jhana piti and 2nd jhana piti as being different in some sense, in intensity for example,
but as far as what the meditator develops, piti in 7sb, piti and 1st and 2nd jhana are the same thing.
It's an independent variable you can turn on or off.
Just like vitakka (verbal thinking) and (vicara) evaluation of that vitakka are each independent variables you can turn on or off. (see AN 8.63)
Piti is like an emotional thrill.
For example, say you hear a joke.
Someone might get a deep belly laugh, repeatedly focus on the mental thrill of it and continue to deep laugh.
someone might just laugh lightly and then just smile.
someone might not smile at the joke at all, but understand perfectly what is funny about the joke, and feel neither pleasant nor painful physical feeling.
That analogy somewhat corresponds with 2nd, 3rd, 4th jhana.
https://lucid24.org/sted/7sb/4piti/index.html
You follow the 'details' link in that article, you can see most of the passages where piti occurs, and judge for yourself what it actually means.
If you practice jhanas enough, one would naturally turn away from piti just from the novelty wearing off, just as if one hears great jokes all the time you tend not to respond with emotional thrill.
Re: Rapture in 7 factors of enlightenment
For those learning and trying to get first and second jhana,
developing piti actively is an important supporting condition, just as learning what kinds of fuel will feed and sustain a fire (of jhana) you're trying to start.
https://lucid24.org/sted/7sb/4piti/index.html
Note this is an important distinction between what the suttas say about piti, and what later Theravada teaches about piti.
VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana) treats piti as something of a spontaneous after effect of pure samatha, whereas in the EBT (early suttas) piti, vitakka, vicara, are all important skills to develop on how to think, what to think, to nourish and feed the fire of jhana.
Just a word to the wise on a typical Buddhist forum, you're going to often get a majority following VRJ and giving you wrong advice (contrary to what early suttas say). So when in doubt, read those early suttas and judge for yourself (links above relevant to piti).
developing piti actively is an important supporting condition, just as learning what kinds of fuel will feed and sustain a fire (of jhana) you're trying to start.
https://lucid24.org/sted/7sb/4piti/index.html
Note this is an important distinction between what the suttas say about piti, and what later Theravada teaches about piti.
VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana) treats piti as something of a spontaneous after effect of pure samatha, whereas in the EBT (early suttas) piti, vitakka, vicara, are all important skills to develop on how to think, what to think, to nourish and feed the fire of jhana.
Just a word to the wise on a typical Buddhist forum, you're going to often get a majority following VRJ and giving you wrong advice (contrary to what early suttas say). So when in doubt, read those early suttas and judge for yourself (links above relevant to piti).
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