concrete examples of difference between verbal thought (vitakka) in first jhāna versus subverbal lucid discerning of higher jhānas

Re: Vitakka & Vicāra

Post by frank k » Sat Oct 01, 2022 9:08 am
vitakka and vicara in first jhana, just as they are anywhere else, in an oral tradition, is linguistic verbal thoughts mental talk.

Here is a concrete example.

In first jhāna, you can have the verbal linguistic thought, "do I have samādhi?"

in second jhāna, you can have the nonverbal knowing without mentally saying, "I have samadhi".
That's the difference.

Here's another easy concrete example.

You know instantly if you are 5 years old or not 5 years old. You don't have to mentally talk it out.
First jhāna would be, "am I 5 years old, no."
second jhāna would be nonverbal knowing (pajānati, what sampajāno does in satipaṭṭhāna and jhāna), without mentally saying to yourself "no I am not 5 years old."

Other examples, easy to do, even for people without jhāna.
You can nonverbally lucidly discern whether this moment you have greed or hatred.
You can lucidly discern all of that subverbally, without mental talk, in all 4 jhānas.

The Buddha has vocabulary that he uses for nonverbal knowing and lucid discerning. The most common being paying attention (manasi karoti) to perceptions, he also talks about samādhi nimitta which could be vitakka (linguistc verbal thought), or subverbal perceptions.
The Buddha also occasionally uses words like 'vitakka sankhara" and "mano sankhara" to describe subverbal mental processing that doesn't involve linguistic mental talk.
The most common subverbal terms, are of course citta sankhara, which are perceptions and sensations (sañña and vedana).

Even if you do vism. "jhāna", you are using subverbal mental processing, such as evaluating (vicāra!) whether the visual nimtta is bright or dim, if the shape is even or spiky, etc.
You can even use the Buddha's vitakka (verbal thought) while doing vism "jhāna" , mentally talking to yourself, "wow that nimitta is sure bright and clear, the edges are a little bit fuzzy though." without causing pīti and sukha to drop away.
The Buddha doesn't call that "access concentration", he just calls it 'four jhānas'.


There are many suttas, here's just one of them making it clear the oral tradition basic ideas of hearing, memorizing, recollecting, mentally saying it in your mind, and saying it out loud, in a four jhānas context.

https://lucid24.org/an/an05/an05-0026/index.html

ānāpānāssati breath meditation examples

breath meditation in first jhāna with vitakka and vicāra: 

can have verbal thoughts and evaluation such as, "wow, my breath feels kind of heavy. is it because there's mental agitation making my body tense, or just some old body pain and injury?"

first jhāna with no vitakka and some vicāra:

(vitakka has already established on a thought such as, "I'm breathing in senitive to entire physical body in all their tactile sensations", and doesn't change into a different vitakka for a long time)

vicāra would be verbal thoughts exploring the vitakka such as "this part of my body feels pleasant, this other part hurts a little bit. why?"

breath meditation with second, third, fourth jhāna:

no verbal thoughts, just subverbal mental processing.

Just like you don't have to mentally say, "am I hungry? do I need to pee? does my breath feel comfortable?"

You directly know those things through subverbal mental processing. 

Even if you decide speak out or mentally talk to yourself, before you do that, you have subverbal awareness of those perceptions.

In Buddha's vocabulary, you're paying attention (manasi karoti) to the vedana (sensations) and sañña (perceptions) related to breath meditation.

Ānā-pāna-s-sati 16🌬️😤‍ = in breath - out breath - remembering

[this meditation is] peaceful and exquisite, a sublime (and a) pleasurable dwelling (SN 54.9)
16APS has the wondrous property of removing unprofitable thoughts and hindrances, since the energy required to monitor physical processes fully occupies one's attentional bandwidth, leaving no room for extraneous thoughts.