Skip to main content

meditation questions: macrocosmic orbit with 16aps breath meditation, boiling empty vessel in qigong

a friend asked: 

Hi Frank, about using the macrocosmic orbit pattern for doing 16APS [ breath meditation] ,
 its okay to spend as much time as comfortable to breathe through each channel correct?
And for the channels that are on both sides of the body how do you do those?
right side first then left side or both sides at the same time.
And isn't there a concept of dont boil an empty pot in qigong?
How is this different if I do this while the channels are not physically open?
Thanks

  

frankk response:

breath meditation step  3 of 16 - whole physical body

video of marcocosmic orbit 


As far as what technique to practice, 
for anything, any meditation technique, any physical exercise, any mental exercise,
 
you always have to carefully do some trial and error and see how things go. 
What's ok for someone might be problematic for someone else with a weaker system, 
or someone with less experience and skill.  

For example,
we've all probably heard advice for any eastern or buddhist sitting meditation that if you have a tendency to have headaches, hypertension,
don't do meditation that focuses on your nostrils or head area,
since that can exacerbate the problem.

That advice applied to me as well as a beginner. 
Doing Pa Auk style 16aps breath meditation which follows Vism. (and not the Buddha's teaching in the suttas),
focusing on sensation at the nostril and trying to develop perception of visible light/luminosity,
that caused tension, headache, hypertension, crossed eyes, 
painful meditation.

But after decades of meditation practice, including correct 16aps breath meditation in the suttas,
having skill in 4 jhānas,
I have a subtle, light touch with my body attention/scanning/focus,
on any part of the body,
including the entire body simultaneously,
(Now with decades of experience with meditation, taiji, qigong, yoga, stretching, calisthenics, etc.)
I can even do Pa Auk style [wrong/not according to Buddha] breath meditation,
with no ill effects, no tension, no headache.

But I wouldn't recommend anyone else to follow Vism. or Pa Auk breath meditation, whether beginner and expert.
(even a meditation expert who is simply curious about Vism., Pa Auk, should practice a modified better/safer version of their system). 
  

The general principle is

The general principle is, whatever physical spatial location on your body you focus on,
it will send qi/energy there. 

 I haven't had too much experience with "boiling an empty vessel in qigong".
the experience I did have that, is if you oversleep, and not enough of your energy channels are open and not opened enough,
you feel like you've been electrically fried,
and you feel more tired than you were compared to point where you were last awake and decided to oversleep instead of get up out of bed. 

But once my energy channels were more open,
then I didn't have oversleeping problems of getting fried,
didn't have problems with "boiling any empty vessel in qigong", 
as far as the head upper body area qigong vessel is concerned.
If I'm sleepy I lie down and am asleep within 1 minute usually.
when I wake up my mind is clear, never groggy,
I'm not able to oversleep and get the electrical fried damage as before.

So the "boiling an empty vessel in qigong" problems can kind of go away naturally 
if you follow a good holistic program that includes a healthy diversity of physical exercises,
eat healthy,
try to be celibate as much as possible to charge up your jhāna battery and keep it above 80% charged everyday.

I suspect people who run into "boiling an empty vessel in qigong" problems,
would first have to have some jhānic level of meditative skill to have a strong enough jhāna force, 
and large enough store of PIE (precious internal energy in your jhāna battery) to open up enough channels in the first place,
and then be in a PIE depleted state (say jhāna battery below 50%)
and working on some specific qigong in a specific area of the body to run into a "boiling an empty vessel in qigong" problem.

But if someone lacks meditative skill, experience, and a sufficiently strong jhāna battery probably wouldn't have opened up energy channels enough to be able to "boil an empty vessel in qigong".



To answer friend's specific questions, with these general principles in mind,


 its okay to spend as much time as comfortable to breathe through each channel correct?
IMO yes.

And for the channels that are on both sides of the body how do you do those?
right side first then left side or both sides at the same time.
I usually do both at the same time, but there's no reason you can't do sides separately,
or spend extra to try to balance an asymmetry or problem spot.


And isn't there a concept of dont boil an empty pot in qigong?
see general principles above

How is this different if I do this while the channels are not physically open?
IMO just careful trial and error,
keep safe balance of good range of physical exercise and meditative practices and everything should open up more gradually and smoothly,

compared to someone who follows a burmese theravada mentality of doing sitting meditation all the  time, 
(to the exclusion of walking meditation, other kinds of exercises and stretching)
not enough physical exercise and stretching, 
very likely to run into all kinds of physical and mental health problems.



Breathing technique

I'll have more to say in detail later,
but in brief I'd advise people to breathe naturally, 
and not try to force your breathing to coordinate inhales and exhales with detailed qigong physical movement.
Or even if you do want to or need to coordinate breath to precise physical movements,
in your learning stage for a few weeks or months until you're familiar with the movements, 
prioritize passaddhi (pacification awakening factor, relaxation) and jhāna first,
before you try to synchronize breathing with specific movements.

If you're all tense trying to sync breathing, you block passaddhi and jhāna,
which will nullify the effectiveness of qigong.






Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Lucid24.org: What's new?

Link to lucid24.org home page :    4👑☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think 🔗📝notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paṭhamampāhaṁ,   bhikkhave,   jhānaṁ   nissāya   āsavānaṁ   khayaṁ   vadāmī’ti,   iti   kho   panetaṁ   vuttaṁ. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Kiñcetaṁ   paṭicca   vuttaṁ? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...

Pāḷi and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

  'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...