Skip to main content

Rapture in 7 factors of enlightenment: Does Pīti have to occur, can it be discarded?

 

Re: Rapture in 7 factors of enlightenment

Post by frank k » 

form wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 5:57 pmThis is an essential factor that must be present and then discarded?
piti (rapture) in 7sb awakening factors is the same as piti in the 4 jhanas.
You can view first jhana piti and 2nd jhana piti as being different in some sense, in intensity for example,
but as far as what the meditator develops, piti in 7sb, piti and 1st and 2nd jhana are the same thing.
It's an independent variable you can turn on or off.
Just like vitakka (verbal thinking) and (vicara) evaluation of that vitakka are each independent variables you can turn on or off. (see AN 8.63)

Piti is like an emotional thrill.

For example, say you hear a joke.
Someone might get a deep belly laugh, repeatedly focus on the mental thrill of it and continue to deep laugh.
someone might just laugh lightly and then just smile.
someone might not smile at the joke at all, but understand perfectly what is funny about the joke, and feel neither pleasant nor painful physical feeling.

That analogy somewhat corresponds with 2nd, 3rd, 4th jhana.

https://lucid24.org/sted/7sb/4piti/index.html
You follow the 'details' link in that article, you can see most of the passages where piti occurs, and judge for yourself what it actually means.

If you practice jhanas enough, one would naturally turn away from piti just from the novelty wearing off, just as if one hears great jokes all the time you tend not to respond with emotional thrill.



Re: Rapture in 7 factors of enlightenment

Post by frank k » 

For those learning and trying to get first and second jhana,
developing piti actively is an important supporting condition, just as learning what kinds of fuel will feed and sustain a fire (of jhana) you're trying to start.

https://lucid24.org/sted/7sb/4piti/index.html


Note this is an important distinction between what the suttas say about piti, and what later Theravada teaches about piti.
VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana) treats piti as something of a spontaneous after effect of pure samatha, whereas in the EBT (early suttas) piti, vitakka, vicara, are all important skills to develop on how to think, what to think, to nourish and feed the fire of jhana.

Just a word to the wise on a typical Buddhist forum, you're going to often get a majority following VRJ and giving you wrong advice (contrary to what early suttas say). So when in doubt, read those early suttas and judge for yourself (links above relevant to piti).


Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha...
Post a Comment
Read more

SN 48.40 Ven. Thanissaro comments on Ven. Sunyo's analysis

This was Ven. Sunyo's analysis of SN 48.40: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/05/exciting-news-honest-ebt-scholars-like.html And here is Ven. Thanissaro's response to that analysis: I think there’s a better way to tackle the issue of SN 48:40 than by appealing to the oldest layers of commentarial literature. That way is to point out that SN 48:40, as we have it, doesn’t pass the test in DN 16 for determining what’s genuine Dhamma and what’s not. There the standard is, not the authority of the person who’s claiming to report the Buddha’s teachings, but whether the teachings he’s reporting are actually in accordance with the principles of the Dhamma that you know. So the simple fact that those who have passed the Buddha’s teachings down to us say that a particular passage is what the Buddha actually taught is not sufficient grounds for accepting it. In the case of the jhānas—the point at issue here— we have to take as our guide the standard formula for the jhānas, a...
Post a Comment
Read more

1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue

To give more context, this is a public event,  * everyone knows cameras are rolling  *  it's a room full of children * the boy's mom is standing off camera a few feet away watching all of this * the boy initiated contact, he had already had a hug with Dalai Lama earlier and then asked Dalai Lama for another hug which triggered this segment  17 min. video showing what happened before that 1 min. clip and after, with some explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78 16min talk from Ajahn Acalo with his thoughts on Dalai Lama kissing boy, relevance to Bhikkhu monastic code, sexual predators in religion in general, and how celibate monastics deal with sexual energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2m0TcUib0 The child's comments about the incident in a filmed interview later https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/04/18/643eba5d46163ffc078b457c.html The child: It's a great experience It was amazing to meet His Holiness and I think it's a great ex...
Post a Comment
Read more