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anyone know the vinaya rules for fruit juice cider (1% to 5% alochol content)


https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/16uyvi5/anyone_know_the_vinaya_rules_for_fruit_juice/

anyone know the vinaya rules for fruit juice cider (1% to 5% alochol content)

Question

I picked a bunch of grapes from my friend's vineyard, making lots of grape juice.

I'll boil some of it and can some of it, but there's still a lot of grape juice in the fridge to drink.

At some point, some of it may start fermenting and becoming cider.

When it's just starting to turn, I don't think there's high enough alcohol % to get drunk or affect your mental capacity, but I wonder what the official ruling on it for vinaya rules for monastics, and people keeping 5 and 8 precepts (no intoxicants such as alcohol).





https://www.reddit.com/r/theravada/comments/16uyvua/comment/k2qx18i/?context=3

Spirited_Ad8737·1 day ago·edited 1 day ago


According to a senior monk in a Q&A, if you can't taste or smell the alcohol then it's ok (for the 5 or 8 precept layperson who asked).


lucid24-frankkOP·23 hr. ago


the thing about fruit juice just starting to turn to cider, is you notice the carbonation bubbles, but you don't really taste the alcohol, but from science you know the fermentation process carbon dioxide (cider bubbles) and alcohol are the outputs.

so I can't taste the alcohol clearly yet, but from science I know there must be some alcohol.

Another borderline case, sometimes modern fruit, which is picked way underripe for longer shelf life and so forth, often doesn't ripen properly. For example, living in the USA eating imported mangoes from Mexio, sometimes when the mango ripens parts of it still taste raw, other parts taste too ripe and too sweet , and occasionally some of the overripe part is a little fermented and slight taste of alcohol.


Spirited_Ad8737·23 hr. ago·edited 23 hr. ago


Interesting, I didn't know any of that. The questioner was asking about off-the-shelf products which may be a bit more clear-cut. Tricky question.

Using the sniff test I go ahead and sometimes drink a glass of 0.5% "non-alcoholic" beer with a meal, but do not drink 2% light beer. I believe this is consistent with the monk's instruction I paraphrased above, and with keeping the fifth precept. The main non alcoholic beer I buy claims to be 0.0%, though I don't know if I believe it. My total consumption is something like two 33cl bottles a month.



https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/16uyvi5/anyone_know_the_vinaya_rules_for_fruit_juice/




CCCBMMR·1 day ago


If the juice isn't perceptibly alcoholic, it should be fine. Basically as long as one can't taste or feel the effects of alcohol, it is acceptable to consume. All juice contains some level of alcohol, and it is fine for monks to drink, because it is not perceptible. The same goes for things like bread and kombucha.

If it turns alcoholic, it would be considered fine to cook with it.

Look at the non-offense clause of pacittiya 51




CCCBMMR·1 day ago


The rule essentially applies to perceptibly alcoholic substances. It is saying don't drink something that is perceptibly alcoholic. Bread contains alcohol, but the alcohol is not perceptible nor intoxicating, so it is acceptable to consume.



lucid24-frankkOP·23 hr. ago


fruit juice just turning into cider still tastes very sweet, with carbonated bubbles, and alcohol not so perceptible. so is it more like the bread case?



CCCBMMR·23 hr. ago


You are going to have to use your own discernment as to when the juice has gone too far.

There is another monastic rule about when the acceptability of an action is in doubt one needs to refrain from the action.

If you are not confident in the contours of the rule, it is just better to act in a way you know is safe. If I had the doubt in my mind about the alcoholic content of what I was wanting to consume, I simply would not consume it.




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