Skip to main content

Ordination is a gamble? incurring karmic debt if one doesn't attain noble fruits

 

Re: Ordination is a gamble

Post by frank k » 

HappyBuddhist wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 5:25 pmJust throwing out some thoughts for discussion:

I've been contemplating about ordination, and it dawned on me that it's a gamble -

By being completely dependent on other people's generosity for basic living, a monk incurs karmic debt. If he doesn't attain noble fruits within this life time, this debt would mature in a future life time.

(If he does attain noble fruits, then this doesn't really matter, of course)

So maybe it's a safer option to practice as a layman.
Demerit and/or debts are commensurate with how sincere and diligent your practice is, not whether you attain noble fruits in this life time.
Don't underestimate the value of monastics who keep sila purely, are virtuous, but don't attian noble fruit in this life.
The merit from that is enormous.
Similar to seeing repeated advertisements on televison.
When you come into contact with virtuous, happy monastics, it's like an advertisement that encourages you to behave likewise.

Contrast that with contact with virtuous happy lay person.
It's similar, but there's much more added power when they're wearing the robes.

Another example.
Consider a mostly virtuous monastic who propogates a corrupted Dharma,
versus a layperson who propogates an uncorrupted Dharma, and blows the whistle on said monastics who corrupt Dhamma.
Assume they have the same number of years and decades of practice in the Dhamma.

Who has greater influence?
A well liked monastic wearing robes is going to automatically have much greater credibility over the layperson, even if their Dhamma is corrupted.
Just as people are going to look at a Phd degree or other credential and immediately believe they're more qualified than someone with only an undergraduate degree or high school diploma.



You're not seeing the real 'gamble'

Re: Ordination is a gamble

Post by frank k » 

If you (anyone considering ordinaton) are going to call it a 'gamble',
you're looking at it completely wrong.

If you're considering ordination with a good organization,
the real gamble and question you should be asking yourself, can you afford not to ordain?

If you ordain, and later find that the laylife is too hard to resist, you can always disrobe.

But if you don't ordain, when you maybe only had one good opportunity in this life to taste the pure, holy life,
to plant seeds and possibliy establish an irreversible path to nirvana,
and instead revolve in samsara for the next 100 lives missing this opportunity,
don't you think you would regret that?


Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha...
Post a Comment
Read more

SN 48.40 Ven. Thanissaro comments on Ven. Sunyo's analysis

This was Ven. Sunyo's analysis of SN 48.40: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/05/exciting-news-honest-ebt-scholars-like.html And here is Ven. Thanissaro's response to that analysis: I think there’s a better way to tackle the issue of SN 48:40 than by appealing to the oldest layers of commentarial literature. That way is to point out that SN 48:40, as we have it, doesn’t pass the test in DN 16 for determining what’s genuine Dhamma and what’s not. There the standard is, not the authority of the person who’s claiming to report the Buddha’s teachings, but whether the teachings he’s reporting are actually in accordance with the principles of the Dhamma that you know. So the simple fact that those who have passed the Buddha’s teachings down to us say that a particular passage is what the Buddha actually taught is not sufficient grounds for accepting it. In the case of the jhānas—the point at issue here— we have to take as our guide the standard formula for the jhānas, a...
Post a Comment
Read more

1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue

To give more context, this is a public event,  * everyone knows cameras are rolling  *  it's a room full of children * the boy's mom is standing off camera a few feet away watching all of this * the boy initiated contact, he had already had a hug with Dalai Lama earlier and then asked Dalai Lama for another hug which triggered this segment  17 min. video showing what happened before that 1 min. clip and after, with some explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78 16min talk from Ajahn Acalo with his thoughts on Dalai Lama kissing boy, relevance to Bhikkhu monastic code, sexual predators in religion in general, and how celibate monastics deal with sexual energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2m0TcUib0 The child's comments about the incident in a filmed interview later https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/04/18/643eba5d46163ffc078b457c.html The child: It's a great experience It was amazing to meet His Holiness and I think it's a great ex...
Post a Comment
Read more