why doesn't Vism. cripple all the vipassana jhāna factors, only vitakka and vicāra?

Re: Sati in Hard Jhana

Post by frank k » Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:14 am

This is a good question that most people don't ask, especially the Vism. followers, and their related ilk (Sujato, brahm with their corrupt EBT interpretation).

Vism. goes through great lengths to redefine vitakka and vicāra in first jhāna, to redefine jhāna into a frozen stupor.
Yet, for sati, sampajāno, and upekkha (explicit in 3rd and 4th jhāna), which all are involved in vipassana activity WHILE in the Buddha's EBT jhāna (see MN 111),
vism. doesn't cripple those definitions as they do with vitakka and vicāra.
Why is that?
It's yet another fatal flaw and damning evidence of their jhāna redefinition.
I believe had they done so, it would just look to ridiculous and obvious they're redefining every common word in the dictionary, such as:
"kāya/body" = not the physical body
"vitakka/thinking" = not thinking.
sati/remembering = only remembering the kasina image
sampajāno/lucid-discerning = only aware of the kasina, nothing else (such as flux of changing sensations, perceptions, thoughts).
upekkha/equanimous-observation = can only observe the kasina, nothing else.

It's all so blatant and contradicts suttas such as AN 9.36 and MN 111.

Alex123 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:54 pmHello all,

Re-reading the suttas I've stumbled on this question:
In the standard stock phrase of the jhanas, the sati (mindfulness) appears in 3rd Jhana and in the 4th Jhana it reaches the state of "purity of equanimity & mindfulness".

If one is totally absorbed into one object, unable to make any sense at all of what is happening while one is in that state, what sort of "mindfulness" (sati) is there?

Thanks,

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