Skip to main content

What B.Analayo says about V&V in MN 19, 78, 125

Comments

  1. I've long shared your frustration with Analayo's highly problematic scholarship on meditation. When I collaborated with him on the translation of the Madhyama-agama, I thought that the Chinese side of things, coupled with what we've learned in the Pali suttas, would make his position on V&V untenable. I said, "it's now clear that V&V cannot mean what the Visuddhimagga tells us." And much to my astonishment, he drew a completely opposite conclusion and said that the comparative work makes his position stronger!
    I suspect that his intransigent opinion on this matter has to do with another worrying trend in Buddhism. There are groups I ran into that advocated a pure cerebral/reflective approach to the Dhamma that does away with meditation altogether. Often, these groups cite the questionable Chinese Xushen-daofa jing in the Samyukta-agama on the issue of "deliverance via discernment/wisdom (panna-vimutti)," which according to the sutta means full liberation without any jhanic foundation.
    Perhaps Analayo thought that any attempt at "sneaking the activity of thought into jhanas" is tantamount to the abovementioned jhana-undermining attempt? He therefore over-corrects by adamantly precludes the possibility of wholesome thoughts in first jhana?
    I agree that most people self-talk in such a way as being little more than being mired in restlessness and philosophizing. But the first jhana type of inner narrative or framed guidance (vitakka) is vastly different. It is done with mindfulness (of clear frame, goal, application of the right methods), systematicity (so that thoughts are not distractive, but assiduously working toward the concerted goal of renunciation and calm and so forth). Such skill of wholesome vitakka is generally only possible after the practitioner has meticulously trained in speech (such as truthful and deliberate speech), as is the case with how the Buddha trained his disciples in a gradual manner. Without this foundation, the way people talk to themselves internally is generally untrustworthy, unsystematic, and unwholesome.
    Given how tenuous, tendentious, and self-contradictory Analayo's scholarly arguments have been, this is the only non-malicious intention I can come up with to ascribe to him.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Hi William,
    I've commmented and started a discussion topic in the forum here:
    http://fm.lucid24.org/index.php?topic=15.0

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Lucid24.org: What's new?

Link to lucid24.org home page :    4👑☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think 🔗📝notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha...

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paṭhamampāhaṁ,   bhikkhave,   jhānaṁ   nissāya   āsavānaṁ   khayaṁ   vadāmī’ti,   iti   kho   panetaṁ   vuttaṁ. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Kiñcetaṁ   paṭicca   vuttaṁ? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...