Skip to main content

AN 1.583 B. Sujato accidentally translated vitakka & vicara correctly


https://suttacentral.net/an1.575-615/en/sujato

This passage is talking about second jhana. The pacification of body and mind confirms it (passaddhi-sam-bojjhanga). As well as the statement, vitakka-vicārā-pi vÅ«pasammanti, which is straight from the second jhana formula. 

AN 1 .583 B. Sujato

“When one thing, mendicants, is developed and cultivated the body and mind become tranquil, thinking and considering settle down, and all of the qualities that play a part in realization are fully developed. “Ekadhamme, bhikkhave, bhāvite bahulÄ«kate kāyopi passambhati, cittampi passambhati, vitakka-vicārā-pi vÅ«pasammanti, kevalāpi vijjābhāgiyā dhammā bhāvanāpāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchanti. What one thing? Katamasmiį¹ƒ ekadhamme? 

 Mindfulness of the body. Kāyagatāya satiyā. When this one thing is developed and cultivated, the body and mind become tranquil, thinking and considering settle down, and all of the qualities that play a part in realization are fully developed.” Imasmiį¹ƒ kho, bhikkhave, ekadhamme bhāvite bahulÄ«kate kāyopi passambhati, cittampi passambhati, vitakkavicārāpi vÅ«pasammanti, kevalāpi vijjābhāgiyā dhammā bhāvanāpāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchantÄ«”ti.



Normally, when B. Sujato realizes 4 jhanas are being described with code phrases (not explicitly calling out which of the 4 jhanas), such as in AN 8.63, he uses the wrong translation/interpretation of vitakka and vicara as "placing the mind and keeping it connected".

AN 8.63 B. Sujato

When this immersion is well developed and cultivated in this way, you should develop it while placing the mind and keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind, but just keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind or keeping it connected. You should develop it with rapture. You should develop it without rapture. You should develop it with pleasure. You should develop it with equanimity. 
Yato kho te, bhikkhu, ayaį¹ƒ samādhi evaį¹ƒ bhāvito hoti bahulÄ«kato, tato tvaį¹ƒ, bhikkhu, imaį¹ƒ samādhiį¹ƒ sa-vitakkampi sa-vicāraį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi vicāramattaį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi avicāraį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi, sappÄ«tikampi bhāveyyāsi, nippÄ«tikampi bhāveyyāsi, sātasahagatampi bhāveyyāsi, upekkhāsahagatampi bhāveyyāsi.



The moral of the story


 If you're going to misinterpret and mistranslate important pali terms, you need to be consistent and comprehensive, otherwise you're going to get caught and look like you lack conviction in your wrong view.

AN 1.583 translated and interpreted correctly


(This is 2nd jhāna here, done in conjunction with kāyagatā-sati)


583
583
“Eka-dhamme, bhikkhave, bhāvite bahulÄ«kate
“When one ☸Dharma, monks, is developed and cultivated
kāyopi passambhati, cittampi passambhati,
the body and mind become pacified,
vitakka-vicārā-pi vūpasammanti,
thinking and considering settle down,
kevalāpi vijjābhāgiyā dhammā
and all of the ☸Dharmas that play a part in realization
Bhāvanā-pāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchanti.
are developed to perfection.
Katamasmiį¹ƒ ekadhamme?
What one ☸Dharma?
Kāya-gatāya satiyā.
Body-immersed remembering.
Imasmiį¹ƒ kho, bhikkhave, eka-dhamme bhāvite bahulÄ«kate
When this one ☸Dharma is developed and cultivated,
kāyopi passambhati, cittampi passambhati,
the body and mind become pacified,
Vitakka-vicārāpi vūpasammanti,
thinking and considering settle down,
kevalāpi vijjābhāgiyā dhammā
and all of the ☸Dharmas that play a part in realization
bhāvanāpāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchantÄ«”ti.
are developed to perfection.”

Comments

  1. William ChuDecember 25, 2019 at 6:25 PM

    Looking at the context of the entire sutta-pitaka, the function of vitakka is closely connected with "knowing the Dhamma by rote," "rehearsing the Dhamma by verbal recitation," "well-learnedness," "repeating the Dhammic instructions as one has learned them from a teacher so that they structure one's present practice"...
    Whereas vicara involves a more nuanced investigation and exploration of the Dhamma instructions in question.
    Such an understanding fits well with the fact that people have their hearts uplifted by teaching, listening to, or thinking about the Dhamma and gone into a jhanic state therefrom. It is also the one consistent interpretation of vitakka-vicara that could practically work in all early Buddhist contexts.
    A straightforward comparison between the aforementioned interpretation on the one hand, and Sujato's interpretation on the other, will clearly show the consistency, cogency, and coherence of the former.

    ReplyDelete

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Lucid24.org: What's new?

Link to lucid24.org home page :    4šŸ‘‘☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think šŸ”—šŸ“notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...
3 comments
Read more

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paį¹­hamampāhaį¹,   bhikkhave,   jhānaį¹   nissāya   āsavānaį¹   khayaį¹   vadāmÄ«’ti,   iti   kho   panetaį¹   vuttaį¹. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? KiƱcetaį¹   paį¹­icca   vuttaį¹? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...
Post a Comment
Read more

Pāįø·i and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

  'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: ą¤µिą¤µेą¤•, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...
Post a Comment
Read more