Skip to main content

šŸ§‡B. Sujato V&V contradicts himself multiple times, AN 5.26, AN 8.63, SN 46.3, SN 47.10, SN 54.13

File:Waffles with Strawberries.jpg - Wikimedia Commons


Synopsis

What all of these suttas have in common, AN 5.26, AN 8.63, SN 46.3, SN 47.10, SN 54.13, 

they all involve the 7sb awakening factor sequence, and how vitakka and vicara (V&V) play a critical role in choosing the meditation subject, lead to pamojja and pīti, and the four jhānas (equivalent to the awakening factor of samadhi-sambojjhanga).

First, I present excerpts of my translation of relevant passages from those suttas, showing consistent and coherent behavior when V&V (vitakka and vicara, thinking and evaluation) is translated and interpreted the same way in all of those passages.

Next, we revisit the same excerpts with B. Sujato's inconsistent interpretation of V&V. All passages have vitakka and vicara highlighted in yellow so you can quickly see where B. Sujato can't make up his mind on how to interpret V&V. This does not bode well for his reinterpretation of jhāna, vitakka, vicāra. If you're trying to convince the world that Vism. has the proper understanding of jhāna, overriding the EBT (early buddhist texts) and a straight forward common sense interpretation of the pali suttas, then you better be consistent in your translation and interpretation in the suttas. If you aren't, then it's basically admitting you lack conviction and evidence in your own thesis. 

If you feel overwhelmed by the detailed pali auditing of too many suttas, then focus on just these two, SN 47.10 and AN 5.26, because they are describing the exact same situation of using V&V to select on inspiring meditation topic and arouse joy leading to samadhi (first jhana and jhana 1.5), compared to getting into 4 jhanas without V&V.  B. Sujato glaringly contradicts himself in his interpretation and translation of V&V in those two suttas. 


We're focusing on North American meaning of "waffling" for this article

waf·fle

/ĖˆwƤfəl/

INFORMAL

verb

gerund or present participle: waffling

1.

NORTH AMERICAN

fail to make up one's mind.

"Joseph had been waffling over where to go"

"Bhikkhu Sujato couldn't decide whether vitakka means 'thinking' or 'placing the mind'." 

2.

BRITISH

speak or write, especially at great length, without saying anything important or useful.

"he waffled on about everything that didn't matter"


Frankk translation, V&V consistently and coherently vitakka = directed thought, vicāra = evaluation

SN 46.3



So tathā vÅ«pakaį¹­į¹­ho viharanto
He, thus withdrawn, dwelling,
taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ anus-sarati anu-vitakketi,
that Dhamma-[teaching] (he) repeatedly-recollects (and) repeatedly-thinks-over,
. Yasmiį¹ƒ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
. On-the occasion, monks, a-monk
tathā vÅ«pakaį¹­į¹­ho viharanto
thus withdrawn, dwelling,
taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ anus-sarati anu-vitakketi,
that Dhamma-[teaching] (he) repeatedly-recollects (and) repeatedly-thinks-over,
sati-sam-bojjh-aį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye
remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;
(the) monk has-aroused;
sati-sam-bojjh-aį¹…gaį¹ƒ tasmiį¹ƒ samaye
remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhu bhāveti;
(the) monk develops;
sati-sam-bojjh-aį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye
remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno bhāvanā-pāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchati.
(the) monk has-developed-(and)-fulfilled *******.
So tathā sato viharanto
He, {dwelling as} a rememberer,
taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ paƱƱāya
that Dhamma-[teaching] (with) discernment,
pa-vicinati pa-vicarati
(he) discriminates, (he) evaluates,
pari-vÄ«maį¹ƒsam-āpajjati.
circumspect-investigation-(he)-enters-upon.
. Yasmiį¹ƒ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
. On-the occasion, monks, a-monk
tathā sato viharanto
Dwelling as a rememberer,
taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ paƱƱāya
that Dhamma-[teaching] (with) discernment,
pa-vicinati pa-vicarati
(he) discriminates, (he) evaluates,
pari-vÄ«maį¹ƒsam-āpajjati.
circumspect-investigation-(he)-enters-upon.
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye
Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;
(the) monk has-aroused;
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aį¹…gaį¹ƒ tasmiį¹ƒ samaye
Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhu bhāveti;
(the) monk develops;
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye
Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno bhāvanā-pāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchati.
(the) monk has-developed-(and)-fulfilled *******.

SN 47.10 bhikkhun-upassaya

    ten'-ānanda, bhikkhunā
    		then-******** (that) monk,
    kismiƱcideva pasādanīye nimitte
    		(towards) some inspiring sign.
    cittaį¹ƒ paį¹‡idahitabbaį¹ƒ.
    		(his) mind (he) should-direct.
    tassa kismiƱcideva pasādanīye nimitte
    		while (towards) some inspiring sign
    cittaį¹ƒ paį¹‡idahato
    		(his) mind (is) directed (at),
    pāmojjaį¹ƒ jāyati.
    		virtuous-mirth (is) born.
    (7sb → 4. šŸ˜) pa-muditassa pÄ«ti jāyati,
    		(7sb → 4. šŸ˜) (For one with) virtuous-mirth rapture (is) born.
    (7sb → 5. šŸŒŠ) pÄ«ti-manassa kāyo passambhati,
    		(7sb → 5. šŸŒŠ) (with) en-raptured-mind (the) body (is) pacified.
    (7sb → 5.5 šŸ™‚) passaddha-kāyo sukhaį¹ƒ vedeti,
    		(7sb → 5.5 šŸ™‚) (with) pacified-body, {they experience} pleasure.
    (7sb → 6. šŸŒ„) sukhino cittaį¹ƒ samādhiyati.
    		(7sb → 6. šŸŒ„) (For one in) pleasure, (the) mind becomes undistractible-&-lucid.
    so iti paį¹­isaƱcikkhati —
    		He then reflects:
    ‘yassa khvāhaį¹ƒ atthāya
    		‘The purpose (for the) sake (of which)
    cittaį¹ƒ paį¹‡idahiį¹ƒ,
    		(my) mind (was) directed,
    so me attho abhinipphanno.
    		that I have accomplished.
    handa, dāni paį¹­isaį¹ƒharāmÄ«’ti.
    		Let me now withdraw it.’
    so paį¹­isaį¹ƒharati ceva
    		(So) he withdraws that (mind)
    na ca vitakketi na ca vicāreti.
    		{and} doesn’t think {and} doesn’t examine.
    ‘a-vitakkomhi a-vicāro,
    		‘Without-thought (and) without-examination,
    ajjhattaį¹ƒ satimā sukham-asmÄ«’ti
    		internally mindful, happy-I (am).
    pajānāti”.
    		(that, he) understands.”


    AN 5.26

    ♦ “puna ca-paraį¹ƒ, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
    		“Again, and-furthermore,
    na heva kho satthā dhammaį¹ƒ deseti,
    		neither the Teacher teaches the monk,
    aƱƱataro vā garuį¹­į¹­hāniyo sabrahmacārÄ«,
    		nor does a fellow monk [teach the monk],
    nāpi
    		nor does he himself, as he
    yathā-sutaį¹ƒ yathā-pariyattaį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ
    		Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    vitthārena paresaį¹ƒ deseti
    		(and in) detail (to) others (he) teaches,
    nāpi
    		nor does he himself, as he
    yathā-sutaį¹ƒ yathā-pariyattaį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ
    		Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    vitthārena sajjhāyaį¹ƒ karoti
    		(and in) detail (he) recites (that) ******.
    api ca kho
    		but instead he
    yathā-sutaį¹ƒ yathā-pariyattaį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ
    		Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    cetasā anu-vitakketi anu-vicāreti
    		(and) mentally (he) ponders (and) examines
    Manas-ān-upekkhati
    		(and his mind) carefully-inspects (that)
    .
    		.
    yathā yathā, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
    		in whatever way, **********, the monk
    yathā-sutaį¹ƒ yathā-pariyattaį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ
    		Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    cetasā anu-vitakketi anu-vicāreti
    		(and) mentally (he) ponders (and) examines
    Manas-ān-upekkhati
    		(and his mind) carefully-inspects (that)

    (refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship)

    tathā tathā so tasmiį¹ƒ
    		like-that, accordingly, he ******
    dhamme attha-paį¹­isaį¹ƒvedÄ« ca hoti
    		{feels [inspiration]} in Dhamma meaning and
    dhamma-paį¹­isaį¹ƒvedÄ« ca.
    		{feels [inspiration]} in Dhamma,
    tassa attha-paį¹­isaį¹ƒvedino dhamma-paį¹­isaį¹ƒvedino
    		as he {feels [inspiration] in} Dhamma-meaning (and) Dhamma,
    Pā-mojjaį¹ƒ jāyati.
    		Virtuous-mirth arises.
    (7sb → 4. šŸ˜) pa-muditassa pÄ«ti jāyati,
    		(7sb → 4. šŸ˜) (For one with) virtuous-mirth rapture (is) born.
    (7sb → 5. šŸŒŠ) pÄ«ti-manassa kāyo passambhati,
    		(7sb → 5. šŸŒŠ) (with) en-raptured-mind (the) body (is) pacified.
    (7sb → 5.5 šŸ™‚) passaddha-kāyo sukhaį¹ƒ vedeti,
    		(7sb → 5.5 šŸ™‚) (with) pacified-body, {they experience} pleasure.
    (7sb → 6. šŸŒ„) sukhino cittaį¹ƒ samādhiyati.
    		(7sb → 6. šŸŒ„) (For one in) pleasure, (the) mind becomes undistractible-&-lucid.
    idaį¹ƒ, bhikkhave, catutthaį¹ƒ vimutt-āyatanaį¹ƒ
    		This, monks, (is the) fourth liberation-basis,
    yattha bhikkhuno appamattassa
    		by means of which, if a monk {dwells} assiduous,
    ātāpino pahitattassa viharato
    		ardent, resolute, ********,
    a-vimuttaį¹ƒ vā cittaį¹ƒ vimuccati,
    		(his) un-liberated ** mind (is) liberated,
    a-parik-khÄ«į¹‡Ä vā āsavā parik-khayaį¹ƒ gacchanti,
    		un-destroyed ** asinine-inclinations, utterly-destroyed (they) become.
    An-anuppattaį¹ƒ vā an-uttaraį¹ƒ yogak-khemaį¹ƒ
    		(the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
    Anu-pāpuį¹‡Äti.
    		(he) reaches.”


    AN 8.63-šŸ”—šŸ”Š In Brief
    tato te,bhikkhu, evaį¹ƒ sikkhitabbaį¹ƒ:
    		“Then you should train yourself thus:
    ‘mettā me ceto-vimutti bhāvitā
    		‘Good-will, as my awareness-release development,
    bhavissati
    		(will be) developed,
    bahulī-katā yānī-katā
    		Much-pursued, given a means of transport,
    vatthu-katā anuį¹­-į¹­hitā
    		given a grounding, steadied,
    paricitā su-samāraddhā’ti.
    		consolidated, & well-undertaken.’
    EvaƱhi te,bhikkhu, sikkhitabbaį¹ƒ.
    		That’s how you should train yourself.
    Yato kho te,bhikkhu, ayaį¹ƒ samādhi evaį¹ƒ bhāvito hoti bahulÄ«kato,
    		When you have developed this undistractible-lucidity in this way,
    tato tvaį¹ƒ,bhikkhu,
    		then

    (combine that with samādhi in 3 ways which fulfills 7sb☀️ and 4jšŸŒ•)

    (samādhi in 3 ways fulfills (7sb → 1-6 šŸ˜šŸ’­… šŸŒ„) and 4j jhānas)
    imaį¹ƒ samādhiį¹ƒ
    		this undistractible-lucidty
    (1) sa-vi-takkampi sa-vicāraį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi,
    		(1) with-directed-thought & with-evaluation (you should) develop,
    (2) a-vi-takkampi vicāra-mattaį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi,
    		(2) Without-directed-thought & a-modicum-of-evaluation (you should) develop,
    (3) a-vi-takkampi a-vicāraį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi,
    		(3) Without-directed-thought & wiithout-evaluation (you should) develop,
    Sap-pīti-kampi bhāveyyāsi,
    		(7sb → 4. šŸ˜) With-rapture (you should) develop,
    nip-pīti-kampi bhāveyyāsi,
    		Without-rapture (you should) develop,
    sāta-sahagatampi bhāveyyāsi,
    		Endowed-with-satisfaction (you should) develop,
    upekkhā-sahagatampi bhāveyyāsi.
    		(7sb → 7. šŸ›†šŸ‘ ) Endowed-with-equanimous-observation (you should) develop,


    B. Sujato translation, V&V sometimes correctly interpreted as 'thinking and considering/exploring', other times 'placing the mind and keeping it connected'

     

    https://suttacentral.net/sn46.3/en/sujato

    Because after hearing the teaching of such mendicants, a mendicant will live withdrawn in both body and mind,TathārÅ«pānaį¹ƒ, bhikkhave, bhikkhÅ«naį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ sutvā dvayena vÅ«pakāsena vÅ«pakaį¹­į¹­ho viharati—kāyavÅ«pakāsena ca cittavÅ«pakāsena ca.as they recollect and think about that teaching.So tathā vÅ«pakaį¹­į¹­ho viharanto taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ anussarati anuvitakketi.


    At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of mindfulness;Yasmiį¹ƒ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu tathā vÅ«pakaį¹­į¹­ho viharanto taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ anussarati anuvitakketi, satisambojjhaį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;they develop itsatisambojjhaį¹…gaį¹ƒ tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti;and perfect it.satisambojjhaį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno bhāvanāpāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchati.As they live mindfully in this way they investigate, explore, and inquire into that teaching with wisdom.So tathā sato viharanto taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ paƱƱāya pavicinati pavicarati parivÄ«maį¹ƒsamāpajjati.


    At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of investigation of principles;Yasmiį¹ƒ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu tathā sato viharanto taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ paƱƱāya pavicinati pavicarati parivÄ«maį¹ƒsamāpajjati, dhammavicayasambojjhaį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;they develop itdhammavicayasambojjhaį¹…gaį¹ƒ tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti;and perfect it.dhammavicayasambojjhaį¹…go



    https://suttacentral.net/sn47.10/en/sujato

    What four?Katamesu catÅ«su?It’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.

    Idhānanda, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassÄ« viharati ātāpÄ« sampajāno satimā, vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaį¹ƒ.

    As they meditate observing an aspect of the body, based on the body there arises physical tension, or mental sluggishness, or the mind is externally scattered.

    Tassa kāye kāyānupassino viharato kāyārammaį¹‡o vā uppajjati kāyasmiį¹ƒ pariįø·Äho, cetaso vā lÄ«nattaį¹ƒ, bahiddhā vā cittaį¹ƒ vikkhipati.

    That mendicant should direct their mind towards an inspiring foundation.

    Tenānanda, bhikkhunā kismiƱcideva pasādanÄ«ye nimitte cittaį¹ƒ paį¹‡idahitabbaį¹ƒ.

    As they do so, joy springs up.Tassa kismiƱcideva pasādanÄ«ye nimitte cittaį¹ƒ paį¹‡idahato pāmojjaį¹ƒ jāyati.

    Being joyful, rapture springs up.Pamuditassa pīti jāyati.

    When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil.Pītimanassa kāyo passambhati.

    When the body is tranquil, one feels bliss.Passaddhakāyo sukhaį¹ƒ vedayati.

    And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi.

    Sukhino cittaį¹ƒ samādhiyati.

    Then they reflect:So iti paį¹­isaƱcikkhati:‘I have accomplished the goal for which I directed my mind.‘yassa khvāhaį¹ƒ atthāya cittaį¹ƒ paį¹‡idahiį¹ƒ, so me attho abhinipphanno.Let me now pull back.’Handa dāni paį¹­isaį¹ƒharāmÄ«’ti.

    They pull back, and neither place the mind nor keep it connected.

    So paį¹­isaį¹ƒharati ceva na ca vitakketi na ca vicāreti.

    They understand: ‘I’m neither placing the mind nor keeping it connected. Mindful within myself, I’m happy.’

    ‘Avitakkomhi avicāro, ajjhattaį¹ƒ satimā sukhamasmÄ«’ti pajānāti.


    https://suttacentral.net/sn54.13/en/sujato

    And how are the four kinds of mindfulness meditation developed and cultivated so as to fulfill the seven awakening factors?Kathaį¹ƒ bhāvitā cānanda, cattāro satipaį¹­į¹­hānā kathaį¹ƒ bahulÄ«katā satta bojjhaį¹…ge paripÅ«renti?Whenever a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body,Yasmiį¹ƒ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassÄ« viharati—their mindfulness is established and lucid.upaį¹­į¹­hitāssa tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno sati hoti asammuį¹­į¹­hā.At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of mindfulness; they develop it and perfect it.Yasmiį¹ƒ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhuno upaį¹­į¹­hitā sati hoti asammuį¹­į¹­hā—satisambojjhaį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti, satisambojjhaį¹…gaį¹ƒ tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti, satisambojjhaį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno bhāvanāpāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchati.


    As they live mindfully in this way they investigate, explore, and inquire into that principle with wisdom.So tathā sato viharanto taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ paƱƱāya pavicinati pavicarati parivÄ«maį¹ƒsamāpajjati.Yasmiį¹ƒ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu tathā sato viharanto taį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ paƱƱāya pavicinati pavicarati parivÄ«maį¹ƒsamāpajjati—At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of investigation of principles; they develop it and perfect it.dhammavicayasambojjhaį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti, dhammavicayasambojjhaį¹…gaį¹ƒ tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti, dhammavicayasambojjhaį¹…go tasmiį¹ƒ samaye bhikkhuno bhāvanāpāripÅ«riį¹ƒ gacchati. (2)



    https://suttacentral.net/an8.63/en/sujato

    When this immersion is well developed and cultivated in this way, you should develop it while placing the mind and keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind, but just keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind or keeping it connected. You should develop it with rapture. You should develop it without rapture. You should develop it with pleasure. You should develop it with equanimity.

    Yato kho te, bhikkhu, ayaį¹ƒ samādhi evaį¹ƒ bhāvito hoti bahulÄ«kato, tato tvaį¹ƒ, bhikkhu, imaį¹ƒ samādhiį¹ƒ savitakkampi savicāraį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi vicāramattaį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi avicāraį¹ƒ bhāveyyāsi, sappÄ«tikampi bhāveyyāsi, nippÄ«tikampi bhāveyyāsi, sātasahagatampi bhāveyyāsi, upekkhāsahagatampi bhāveyyāsi.


    https://suttacentral.net/an5.26/en/sujato

    But the mendicant thinks about and considers the teaching in their heart, examining it with the mind as they learned and memorized it.api ca kho yathāsutaį¹ƒ yathāpariyattaį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ cetasā anuvitakketi anuvicāreti manasānupekkhati.That mendicant feels inspired by the meaning and the teaching in that Dhamma, no matter how they think about and consider it in their heart, examining it with the mind as they learned and memorized it.Yathā yathā, bhikkhave, bhikkhu yathāsutaį¹ƒ yathāpariyattaį¹ƒ dhammaį¹ƒ cetasā anuvitakketi anuvicāreti manasānupekkhati tathā tathā so tasmiį¹ƒ dhamme atthapaį¹­isaį¹ƒvedÄ« ca hoti dhammapaį¹­isaį¹ƒvedÄ« ca.Feeling inspired, joy springs up.Tassa atthapaį¹­isaį¹ƒvedino dhammapaį¹­isaį¹ƒvedino pāmojjaį¹ƒ jāyati.Being joyful, rapture springs up.Pamuditassa pÄ«ti jāyati.When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil.PÄ«timanassa kāyo passambhati.When the body is tranquil, one feels bliss.Passaddhakāyo sukhaį¹ƒ vedeti.And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi.Sukhino cittaį¹ƒ samādhiyati.This is the fourth opportunity for freedom. …Idaį¹ƒ, bhikkhave, catutthaį¹ƒ vimuttāyatanaį¹ƒ yattha bhikkhuno appamattassa ātāpino pahitattassa viharato avimuttaį¹ƒ vā cittaį¹ƒ vimuccati, aparikkhÄ«į¹‡Ä vā āsavā parikkhayaį¹ƒ gacchanti, ananuppattaį¹ƒ vā anuttaraį¹ƒ yogakkhemaį¹ƒ anupāpuį¹‡Äti. (4)


    Moral of the story and Conclusion

    File:Waffles with Strawberries.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

    Waffles can be delicious, but not when it comes to translating and interpretation of important meditation terms. 


    Comments

    Post a Comment

    Popular posts from this blog

    Lucid24.org: What's new?

    Link to lucid24.org home page :    4šŸ‘‘☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think šŸ”—šŸ“notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...
    3 comments
    Read more

    AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

    What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paį¹­hamampāhaį¹,   bhikkhave,   jhānaį¹   nissāya   āsavānaį¹   khayaį¹   vadāmÄ«’ti,   iti   kho   panetaį¹   vuttaį¹. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? KiƱcetaį¹   paį¹­icca   vuttaį¹? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...
    Post a Comment
    Read more

    Pāįø·i and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

      'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: ą¤µिą¤µेą¤•, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...
    Post a Comment
    Read more