Thursday, August 13, 2020

🧇B. Sujato V&V contradicts himself multiple times, AN 5.26, AN 8.63, SN 46.3, SN 47.10, SN 54.13

File:Waffles with Strawberries.jpg - Wikimedia Commons


Synopsis

What all of these suttas have in common, AN 5.26, AN 8.63, SN 46.3, SN 47.10, SN 54.13, 

they all involve the 7sb awakening factor sequence, and how vitakka and vicara (V&V) play a critical role in choosing the meditation subject, lead to pamojja and pīti, and the four jhānas (equivalent to the awakening factor of samadhi-sambojjhanga).

First, I present excerpts of my translation of relevant passages from those suttas, showing consistent and coherent behavior when V&V (vitakka and vicara, thinking and evaluation) is translated and interpreted the same way in all of those passages.

Next, we revisit the same excerpts with B. Sujato's inconsistent interpretation of V&V. All passages have vitakka and vicara highlighted in yellow so you can quickly see where B. Sujato can't make up his mind on how to interpret V&V. This does not bode well for his reinterpretation of jhāna, vitakka, vicāra. If you're trying to convince the world that Vism. has the proper understanding of jhāna, overriding the EBT (early buddhist texts) and a straight forward common sense interpretation of the pali suttas, then you better be consistent in your translation and interpretation in the suttas. If you aren't, then it's basically admitting you lack conviction and evidence in your own thesis. 

If you feel overwhelmed by the detailed pali auditing of too many suttas, then focus on just these two, SN 47.10 and AN 5.26, because they are describing the exact same situation of using V&V to select on inspiring meditation topic and arouse joy leading to samadhi (first jhana and jhana 1.5), compared to getting into 4 jhanas without V&V.  B. Sujato glaringly contradicts himself in his interpretation and translation of V&V in those two suttas. 


We're focusing on North American meaning of "waffling" for this article

waf·fle

/ˈwäfəl/

INFORMAL

verb

gerund or present participle: waffling

1.

NORTH AMERICAN

fail to make up one's mind.

"Joseph had been waffling over where to go"

"Bhikkhu Sujato couldn't decide whether vitakka means 'thinking' or 'placing the mind'." 

2.

BRITISH

speak or write, especially at great length, without saying anything important or useful.

"he waffled on about everything that didn't matter"


Frankk translation, V&V consistently and coherently vitakka = directed thought, vicāra = evaluation

SN 46.3



So tathā vūpakaṭṭho viharanto
He, thus withdrawn, dwelling,
taṃ dhammaṃ anus-sarati anu-vitakketi,
that Dhamma-[teaching] (he) repeatedly-recollects (and) repeatedly-thinks-over,
. Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
. On-the occasion, monks, a-monk
tathā vūpakaṭṭho viharanto
thus withdrawn, dwelling,
taṃ dhammaṃ anus-sarati anu-vitakketi,
that Dhamma-[teaching] (he) repeatedly-recollects (and) repeatedly-thinks-over,
sati-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye
remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;
(the) monk has-aroused;
sati-sam-bojjh-aṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye
remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhu bhāveti;
(the) monk develops;
sati-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye
remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno bhāvanā-pāripūriṃ gacchati.
(the) monk has-developed-(and)-fulfilled *******.
So tathā sato viharanto
He, {dwelling as} a rememberer,
taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya
that Dhamma-[teaching] (with) discernment,
pa-vicinati pa-vicarati
(he) discriminates, (he) evaluates,
pari-vīmaṃsam-āpajjati.
circumspect-investigation-(he)-enters-upon.
. Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
. On-the occasion, monks, a-monk
tathā sato viharanto
Dwelling as a rememberer,
taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya
that Dhamma-[teaching] (with) discernment,
pa-vicinati pa-vicarati
(he) discriminates, (he) evaluates,
pari-vīmaṃsam-āpajjati.
circumspect-investigation-(he)-enters-upon.
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye
Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;
(the) monk has-aroused;
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye
Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhu bhāveti;
(the) monk develops;
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye
Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno bhāvanā-pāripūriṃ gacchati.
(the) monk has-developed-(and)-fulfilled *******.

SN 47.10 bhikkhun-upassaya

    ten'-ānanda, bhikkhunā
    then-******** (that) monk,
    kismiñcideva pasādanīye nimitte
    (towards) some inspiring sign.
    cittaṃ paṇidahitabbaṃ.
    (his) mind (he) should-direct.
    tassa kismiñcideva pasādanīye nimitte
    while (towards) some inspiring sign
    cittaṃ paṇidahato
    (his) mind (is) directed (at),
    pāmojjaṃ jāyati.
    virtuous-mirth (is) born.
    (7sb → 4. 😁) pa-muditassa pīti jāyati,
    (7sb → 4. 😁) (For one with) virtuous-mirth rapture (is) born.
    (7sb → 5. 🌊) pīti-manassa kāyo passambhati,
    (7sb → 5. 🌊) (with) en-raptured-mind (the) body (is) pacified.
    (7sb → 5.5 🙂) passaddha-kāyo sukhaṃ vedeti,
    (7sb → 5.5 🙂) (with) pacified-body, {they experience} pleasure.
    (7sb → 6. 🌄) sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati.
    (7sb → 6. 🌄) (For one in) pleasure, (the) mind becomes undistractible-&-lucid.
    so iti paṭisañcikkhati —
    He then reflects:
    ‘yassa khvāhaṃ atthāya
    ‘The purpose (for the) sake (of which)
    cittaṃ paṇidahiṃ,
    (my) mind (was) directed,
    so me attho abhinipphanno.
    that I have accomplished.
    handa, dāni paṭisaṃharāmī’ti.
    Let me now withdraw it.’
    so paṭisaṃharati ceva
    (So) he withdraws that (mind)
    na ca vitakketi na ca vicāreti.
    {and} doesn’t think {and} doesn’t examine.
    ‘a-vitakkomhi a-vicāro,
    ‘Without-thought (and) without-examination,
    ajjhattaṃ satimā sukham-asmī’ti
    internally mindful, happy-I (am).
    pajānāti”.
    (that, he) understands.”


    AN 5.26

    ♦ “puna ca-paraṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
    “Again, and-furthermore,
    na heva kho satthā dhammaṃ deseti,
    neither the Teacher teaches the monk,
    aññataro vā garuṭṭhāniyo sabrahmacārī,
    nor does a fellow monk [teach the monk],
    nāpi
    nor does he himself, as he
    yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
    Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    vitthārena paresaṃ deseti
    (and in) detail (to) others (he) teaches,
    nāpi
    nor does he himself, as he
    yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
    Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    vitthārena sajjhāyaṃ karoti
    (and in) detail (he) recites (that) ******.
    api ca kho
    but instead he
    yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
    Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    cetasā anu-vitakketi anu-vicāreti
    (and) mentally (he) ponders (and) examines
    Manas-ān-upekkhati
    (and his mind) carefully-inspects (that)
    .
    .
    yathā yathā, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
    in whatever way, **********, the monk
    yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
    Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
    cetasā anu-vitakketi anu-vicāreti
    (and) mentally (he) ponders (and) examines
    Manas-ān-upekkhati
    (and his mind) carefully-inspects (that)

    (refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship)

    tathā tathā so tasmiṃ
    like-that, accordingly, he ******
    dhamme attha-paṭisaṃvedī ca hoti
    {feels [inspiration]} in Dhamma meaning and
    dhamma-paṭisaṃvedī ca.
    {feels [inspiration]} in Dhamma,
    tassa attha-paṭisaṃvedino dhamma-paṭisaṃvedino
    as he {feels [inspiration] in} Dhamma-meaning (and) Dhamma,
    Pā-mojjaṃ jāyati.
    Virtuous-mirth arises.
    (7sb → 4. 😁) pa-muditassa pīti jāyati,
    (7sb → 4. 😁) (For one with) virtuous-mirth rapture (is) born.
    (7sb → 5. 🌊) pīti-manassa kāyo passambhati,
    (7sb → 5. 🌊) (with) en-raptured-mind (the) body (is) pacified.
    (7sb → 5.5 🙂) passaddha-kāyo sukhaṃ vedeti,
    (7sb → 5.5 🙂) (with) pacified-body, {they experience} pleasure.
    (7sb → 6. 🌄) sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati.
    (7sb → 6. 🌄) (For one in) pleasure, (the) mind becomes undistractible-&-lucid.
    idaṃ, bhikkhave, catutthaṃ vimutt-āyatanaṃ
    This, monks, (is the) fourth liberation-basis,
    yattha bhikkhuno appamattassa
    by means of which, if a monk {dwells} assiduous,
    ātāpino pahitattassa viharato
    ardent, resolute, ********,
    a-vimuttaṃ vā cittaṃ vimuccati,
    (his) un-liberated ** mind (is) liberated,
    a-parik-khīṇā vā āsavā parik-khayaṃ gacchanti,
    un-destroyed ** asinine-inclinations, utterly-destroyed (they) become.
    An-anuppattaṃ vā an-uttaraṃ yogak-khemaṃ
    (the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
    Anu-pāpuṇāti.
    (he) reaches.”


    AN 8.63-🔗🔊 In Brief
    tato te,bhikkhu, evaṃ sikkhitabbaṃ:
    “Then you should train yourself thus:
    ‘mettā me ceto-vimutti bhāvitā
    ‘Good-will, as my awareness-release development,
    bhavissati
    (will be) developed,
    bahulī-katā yānī-katā
    Much-pursued, given a means of transport,
    vatthu-katā anuṭ-ṭhitā
    given a grounding, steadied,
    paricitā su-samāraddhā’ti.
    consolidated, & well-undertaken.’
    Evañhi te,bhikkhu, sikkhitabbaṃ.
    That’s how you should train yourself.
    Yato kho te,bhikkhu, ayaṃ samādhi evaṃ bhāvito hoti bahulīkato,
    When you have developed this undistractible-lucidity in this way,
    tato tvaṃ,bhikkhu,
    then

    (combine that with samādhi in 3 ways which fulfills 7sb☀️ and 4j🌕)

    (samādhi in 3 ways fulfills (7sb → 1-6 🐘💭… 🌄) and 4j jhānas)
    imaṃ samādhiṃ
    this undistractible-lucidty
    (1) sa-vi-takkampi sa-vicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi,
    (1) with-directed-thought & with-evaluation (you should) develop,
    (2) a-vi-takkampi vicāra-mattaṃ bhāveyyāsi,
    (2) Without-directed-thought & a-modicum-of-evaluation (you should) develop,
    (3) a-vi-takkampi a-vicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi,
    (3) Without-directed-thought & wiithout-evaluation (you should) develop,
    Sap-pīti-kampi bhāveyyāsi,
    (7sb → 4. 😁) With-rapture (you should) develop,
    nip-pīti-kampi bhāveyyāsi,
    Without-rapture (you should) develop,
    sāta-sahagatampi bhāveyyāsi,
    Endowed-with-satisfaction (you should) develop,
    upekkhā-sahagatampi bhāveyyāsi.
    (7sb → 7. 🛆👁 ) Endowed-with-equanimous-observation (you should) develop,


    B. Sujato translation, V&V sometimes correctly interpreted as 'thinking and considering/exploring', other times 'placing the mind and keeping it connected'

     

    https://suttacentral.net/sn46.3/en/sujato

    Because after hearing the teaching of such mendicants, a mendicant will live withdrawn in both body and mind,Tathārūpānaṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhūnaṃ dhammaṃ sutvā dvayena vūpakāsena vūpakaṭṭho viharati—kāyavūpakāsena ca cittavūpakāsena ca.as they recollect and think about that teaching.So tathā vūpakaṭṭho viharanto taṃ dhammaṃ anussarati anuvitakketi.


    At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of mindfulness;Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu tathā vūpakaṭṭho viharanto taṃ dhammaṃ anussarati anuvitakketi, satisambojjhaṅgo tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;they develop itsatisambojjhaṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti;and perfect it.satisambojjhaṅgo tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno bhāvanāpāripūriṃ gacchati.As they live mindfully in this way they investigate, explore, and inquire into that teaching with wisdom.So tathā sato viharanto taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya pavicinati pavicarati parivīmaṃsamāpajjati.


    At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of investigation of principles;Yasmiṃ samaye, bhikkhave, bhikkhu tathā sato viharanto taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya pavicinati pavicarati parivīmaṃsamāpajjati, dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;they develop itdhammavicayasambojjhaṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti;and perfect it.dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo



    https://suttacentral.net/sn47.10/en/sujato

    What four?Katamesu catūsu?It’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.

    Idhānanda, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā, vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṃ.

    As they meditate observing an aspect of the body, based on the body there arises physical tension, or mental sluggishness, or the mind is externally scattered.

    Tassa kāye kāyānupassino viharato kāyārammaṇo vā uppajjati kāyasmiṃ pariḷāho, cetaso vā līnattaṃ, bahiddhā vā cittaṃ vikkhipati.

    That mendicant should direct their mind towards an inspiring foundation.

    Tenānanda, bhikkhunā kismiñcideva pasādanīye nimitte cittaṃ paṇidahitabbaṃ.

    As they do so, joy springs up.Tassa kismiñcideva pasādanīye nimitte cittaṃ paṇidahato pāmojjaṃ jāyati.

    Being joyful, rapture springs up.Pamuditassa pīti jāyati.

    When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil.Pītimanassa kāyo passambhati.

    When the body is tranquil, one feels bliss.Passaddhakāyo sukhaṃ vedayati.

    And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi.

    Sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati.

    Then they reflect:So iti paṭisañcikkhati:‘I have accomplished the goal for which I directed my mind.‘yassa khvāhaṃ atthāya cittaṃ paṇidahiṃ, so me attho abhinipphanno.Let me now pull back.’Handa dāni paṭisaṃharāmī’ti.

    They pull back, and neither place the mind nor keep it connected.

    So paṭisaṃharati ceva na ca vitakketi na ca vicāreti.

    They understand: ‘I’m neither placing the mind nor keeping it connected. Mindful within myself, I’m happy.’

    ‘Avitakkomhi avicāro, ajjhattaṃ satimā sukhamasmī’ti pajānāti.


    https://suttacentral.net/sn54.13/en/sujato

    And how are the four kinds of mindfulness meditation developed and cultivated so as to fulfill the seven awakening factors?Kathaṃ bhāvitā cānanda, cattāro satipaṭṭhānā kathaṃ bahulīkatā satta bojjhaṅge paripūrenti?Whenever a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body,Yasmiṃ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī viharati—their mindfulness is established and lucid.upaṭṭhitāssa tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno sati hoti asammuṭṭhā.At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of mindfulness; they develop it and perfect it.Yasmiṃ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhuno upaṭṭhitā sati hoti asammuṭṭhā—satisambojjhaṅgo tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti, satisambojjhaṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti, satisambojjhaṅgo tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno bhāvanāpāripūriṃ gacchati.


    As they live mindfully in this way they investigate, explore, and inquire into that principle with wisdom.So tathā sato viharanto taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya pavicinati pavicarati parivīmaṃsamāpajjati.Yasmiṃ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu tathā sato viharanto taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya pavicinati pavicarati parivīmaṃsamāpajjati—At such a time, a mendicant has activated the awakening factor of investigation of principles; they develop it and perfect it.dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno āraddho hoti, dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhu bhāveti, dhammavicayasambojjhaṅgo tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno bhāvanāpāripūriṃ gacchati. (2)



    https://suttacentral.net/an8.63/en/sujato

    When this immersion is well developed and cultivated in this way, you should develop it while placing the mind and keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind, but just keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind or keeping it connected. You should develop it with rapture. You should develop it without rapture. You should develop it with pleasure. You should develop it with equanimity.

    Yato kho te, bhikkhu, ayaṃ samādhi evaṃ bhāvito hoti bahulīkato, tato tvaṃ, bhikkhu, imaṃ samādhiṃ savitakkampi savicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi vicāramattaṃ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi avicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi, sappītikampi bhāveyyāsi, nippītikampi bhāveyyāsi, sātasahagatampi bhāveyyāsi, upekkhāsahagatampi bhāveyyāsi.


    https://suttacentral.net/an5.26/en/sujato

    But the mendicant thinks about and considers the teaching in their heart, examining it with the mind as they learned and memorized it.api ca kho yathāsutaṃ yathāpariyattaṃ dhammaṃ cetasā anuvitakketi anuvicāreti manasānupekkhati.That mendicant feels inspired by the meaning and the teaching in that Dhamma, no matter how they think about and consider it in their heart, examining it with the mind as they learned and memorized it.Yathā yathā, bhikkhave, bhikkhu yathāsutaṃ yathāpariyattaṃ dhammaṃ cetasā anuvitakketi anuvicāreti manasānupekkhati tathā tathā so tasmiṃ dhamme atthapaṭisaṃvedī ca hoti dhammapaṭisaṃvedī ca.Feeling inspired, joy springs up.Tassa atthapaṭisaṃvedino dhammapaṭisaṃvedino pāmojjaṃ jāyati.Being joyful, rapture springs up.Pamuditassa pīti jāyati.When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil.Pītimanassa kāyo passambhati.When the body is tranquil, one feels bliss.Passaddhakāyo sukhaṃ vedeti.And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi.Sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati.This is the fourth opportunity for freedom. …Idaṃ, bhikkhave, catutthaṃ vimuttāyatanaṃ yattha bhikkhuno appamattassa ātāpino pahitattassa viharato avimuttaṃ vā cittaṃ vimuccati, aparikkhīṇā vā āsavā parikkhayaṃ gacchanti, ananuppattaṃ vā anuttaraṃ yogakkhemaṃ anupāpuṇāti. (4)


    Moral of the story and Conclusion

    File:Waffles with Strawberries.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

    Waffles can be delicious, but not when it comes to translating and interpretation of important meditation terms. 


    No comments:

    Post a Comment