The samadhi in 3 ways formula, is not well understood by most people.

Part of the reason, is because they're trying to understand a corrupted translation of vitakka and vicara. It's complete nonsense if you go by B. Sujato's translation, or Visuddhimagga late Abhidhamma redefinition of what V&V💭 means.

But if you follow correct EBT understanding of V&V,

vitakka means directed-thought, and vicara means evaluation.

Now the question is, both vitakka and vicara are 'thinking', so what's the difference between them?

KN Pe 7.72 explains it succinctly: Vitakka decides on a topic, then gives it to vicara to analyze it further.

AN 8.63 - 🔗🔊 is the most detailed sutta that talks about .

In it, and are the 8 types of vitakka used to practice in conjunction with , to fulfill and and attain arahantship.

So here are the 8 vitakka's from AN 8.63:

1. metta Dharma instructions

2. karuna/compassion Dharma instructions

3. mudita/virtuous mirth...

4. upekkha/equanimous observation

5. kaya anupassana Dharma instructions

6. vedana...

7. citta...

8. Dharma anupassana Dharma instructions

So with the breath meditation 16APS instructions, it's just 4 tetrads that correspond to the 4 satipatthana (#5-8 above).

What vicara without vitakka is doing then, is exploring/evaluating/pondering the subject already determined by one of the 8 vitakka above. We see this in action in MN 118 and the anapana suttas.

MN 118 the famous breath meditation sutta, is just an expanded version of SN 54.13.

(SN 54 is the breath meditation samyutta).

I'm going to point out the connection to AN 8.63 and SN 46.3 that most people won't notice

So here we see what it means to have no vitakka, and some vicara. Vitakka has already been fixed as the 4 tetrads of breath meditation. So vicara is the evaluation/thinking narrowed down to the vitakka topic of one of those 4sp satipatthana tetrads.

Here in detail, we see the instructions for kāya anu passana (body contemplation). The same text is used for vedana, citta, and Dhamma anu passsana as well.

On the section where it describes how the practice of 16APS breath meditation fulfills the 7sb awakenig factors,

(how 4sp1 kāya → 7sb)

( 6 of the 7 awakening factors are the same as SN 46.3, just the first one, sati being specific with a vitakka for breath meditation here)

(16🌬️😤‍ is the Dharma that sati-sambojjhanga ‘remembers’/sarati and ‘thinks’(vitakka) about)


Kathaṃ bhāvitā cānanda, cattāro satipaṭṭhānā kathaṃ bahulīkatā satta bojjhaṅge paripūrenti?	And how are the four kinds of rememberfulness meditation developed and cultivated so as to fulfill the seven awakening factors?

(1. 🐘 Sati: taṃ Dhammaṃ anus-sarati anu-vitakketi)


Yasmiṃ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī viharati—	Whenever a monk meditates by continuously-seeing the body as a body [as it actually is],
upaṭṭhitāssa tasmiṃ samaye bhikkhuno sati hoti a-sam-muṭṭhā.	their remembering [of Dharma] is established and not-forgetful. (in the standard 7sb version such as SN 46.3, sati recollects a Dharma and then vitakka / thinks about it. Whereas here it's already established that sati is dealing with breath meditation vitakka)
. Yasmiṃ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhuno	. On-the occasion, ānanda, a-monk
upaṭṭhitā sati hoti a-sam-muṭṭhā—	{has} established [Dharma]-remembering, is not-forgetful-

sati-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye	remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;	(the) monk has-aroused;
sati-sam-bojjh-aṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye	remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhu bhāveti;	(the) monk develops;
sati-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye	remembrance-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno bhāvanā-pāripūriṃ gacchati.	(the) monk has-developed-(and)-fulfilled *******.

(2. 💭 Dhamma-vicaya: taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya, pa-vicinati pa-vicarati pari-vīmaṃsam-āpajjati )

So tathā sato viharanto	He, {dwelling as} a rememberer,
taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya	that Dhamma-[teaching] (with) discernment,
pa-vicinati pa-*vicarati*	(he) discriminates, (he) evaluates (vicāra),
pari-vīmaṃsam-āpajjati.	circumspect-investigation-(he)-enters-upon.
. Yasmiṃ samaye, ānanda, bhikkhu	. On-the occasion, ānanda, a-monk
tathā sato viharanto	Dwelling as a rememberer,
taṃ dhammaṃ paññāya	that Dhamma-[teaching] (with) discernment,
pa-vicinati pa-vicarati	(he) discriminates, (he) evaluates,
pari-vīmaṃsam-āpajjati.	circumspect-investigation-(he)-enters-upon.
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye	Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno āraddho hoti;	(the) monk has-aroused;
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aṅgaṃ tasmiṃ samaye	Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhu bhāveti;	(the) monk develops;
Dhamma-vicaya-sam-bojjh-aṅgo tasmiṃ samaye	Dhamma-investigation-awakening-factor on-that occasion
bhikkhuno bhāvanā-pāripūriṃ gacchati.	(the) monk has-developed-(and)-fulfilled *******.

(The rest of the 7sb, including Dhamma vicaya above, is same as the important sutta SN 46.3 on 7sb. In fact 6 of the 7 are the same, just the first one, sati being specific with a vitakka for breath meditation here)

B. Sujato's translation of AN 8.63 is nonsensical

https://suttacentral.net/an8.63/en/sujato

When this immersion is well developed and cultivated in this way, you should develop it while placing the mind and keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind, but just keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind or keeping it connected. You should develop it with rapture. You should develop it without rapture. You should develop it with pleasure. You should develop it with equanimity.

Yato kho te, bhikkhu, ayaṃ samādhi evaṃ bhāvito hoti bahulīkato, tato tvaṃ, bhikkhu, imaṃ samādhiṃ savitakkampi savicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi vicāramattaṃ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi avicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi, sappītikampi bhāveyyāsi, nippītikampi bhāveyyāsi, sātasahagatampi bhāveyyāsi, upekkhāsahagatampi bhāveyyāsi.

If you go by B. Sujato's translation and actually try to plug in the various type of Dharma instruction meditations for vitakka, then the breath meditation of MN 118, and the 8 vitakkas of AN 8.63 don't make any sense and provide no coherent meditation instruction. It's like a snake trying to eat its own tail, or an infinite recursion.

Reference

Detailed study on samādhi in 3 ways = samādhi in 3 ways

VRJ🐍 (V)isuddhi-magga (Re)-definition of (J)hana

Jabrama🤡-jhana

2 comments:

William ChuAugust 17, 2020 at 12:09 PM
Vitakka has a lot to do with the rote culture in Buddhist/ancient Indian religious traditions (As it were, mnemonics was considered an absolutely crucial prerequisite to apprenticeship). It is about inner recitation. It is about correctly repeating what you have learned, and reciting it to yourself so that you are guiding your practice with internalized instructions.Vicara is the ruminating, evaluating, experimenting, assessing...of the previous process.
Example:Vitakka: When I breath, I recite to myself the sutta's instruction: "breathing in...breathing out, I pacify bodily activities."Vicara: As I do the above, I might ponder over the meaning of that instruction and my use of the technique, or adjust my approach by verbally directing myself: "Hmm, this feels good. If I were to ferret out even more subtle activities and pacify them, it would be still better. Let me try..." Applying vicara to examining the results and modifying my approach is the way to continuously refine my practice.
William ChuAugust 19, 2020 at 2:23 PM
The Buddha really appeared to be a pragmatist when it comes to the following issue: weaning the mind off of the primordial addiction called craving.

His invention and assessment of whatever meditative techniques really are geared toward that goal, as opposed to shutting down senses for its own sake, or arriving at a no-thought state for its own sake. To the extent that shutting down senses or attaining perfect inner quietude is conducive to the goal of weaning off that addiction, the Buddha talks about and teaches them. This is why first jhana is a foundation to ending effluents just as second jhana and all other meditative attainments are, when they are used specifically for that purpose.

The impression I got from conversing with Analayo (I assume is the same case with Sujato and Brahmali) was that he was really invested in a "peak experience"--something he's either tasted or idealized about. Anything less than an immovable absorption is deemed a "watered down" version of meditation by him, and constitutes a risk of lowering the threshold/standards of practice.

But peak experiences are such unreliable measures for attainment of fruitions. Weaning off addictions and the resultant peace of not being oppressed by urges are way more reliable measures for the attainment of fruitions. For me, it's mysticism vs ethical psycho-behaviorism. Zen and Theravada masters who purported all kinds of non-dual, earth-shattering peak experiences (e.g. satori, maggaphala moments) often continue to evince questionable behavioral tendencies. I'd much rather have a teacher who purports no peak experiences, but can clearly delineate a causal connection between ethical-behavioral modifications (a successful addiction-weaning behavioral program) and suffering.

I keep telling my group of practitioners: it's not about seeking out enlightenment; it's about changing habits. Can thoughtless quietude help change habits? Sure. When it is used in a certain way. But so can a properly directed inner dialogue that brings a person to peace, managing urges, and dispassion.

notes on the Dhamma

Wednesday, August 12, 2020

MN 118 prime example of samadhi in 3 ways (with vitakka, with some vicara, without V&V), B. Sujato AN 8.63 is nonsensical