DN 2 Third jhāna formula translation, "You get to personally experience B. Sujato's sophistry"

Following up on this article,

DN 2 Third jhāna formula translation, "You get to personally experience B. Sujato's sophistry"

 

There's another important point to make, about the loss of important information when you use Sujato's type of sophistry.

 I'll illustrate the point with a simile, based on a true recent event.

I was shopping for 100% cotton black face masks, an item that's useful in these pandemic times.

One of the ones I bought, came with the instructions, "dry clean only." (see appendix on toxicity of dry cleaning chemicals).

So I've had plenty of experience with cotton material in my lifetime, and I know that you really only want dry cleaning if you're worried about cosmetic appearance, not getting wrinkles, white lint on your shiny and smooth black fabric, etc.

But since it is a facemask I'm going to be breathing through, there is no way in hell I'm going to send it to the dry cleaners, and breathe all the toxic chemicals they would put in there.

So like a sensible person, I ignored the idiotic cleaning instructions, and I washed my 100% cotton face masks like a sane person would do, machine wash cold water, air dry on clothesline instead of drying machine.   

Then this simile occurred to me, illustrating the difference between the Buddha,  Abhidhamma, and Sujato

If the Buddha were the tailor of the cotton mask, the cleaning label would say,

"wash in cold water, air dry."

A few hundred years later, Abhidhamma comes along to explain the Buddha's instruction, saying it  requires the wisdom of Abhidhamma to explain that concise words of the Buddha in detail:

"When the Buddha says wash in cold water and air dry", what he actually means is:

don't wash in cold water!

When Buddha says "dry", he means "use Abhidhamma dry cleaning service (we promise our chemical is non toxic, you can trust us)".

When Buddha says "air", he means  you must "air out the garment  after you've used the Abhidhamma professional dry cleaning service."

When Buddha says "wash in cold water",  Under no circumstance should you wash it in cold water yourself, since the Buddha's wisdom is so profound and deep you must rely on the professional Abhidhamma dry cleaning service to properly explain the Buddha's meaning. 

Then Sujato comes along 2500 years after the Buddha, and he explains, 

"When the Buddha says wash in cold water and air dry, you can't take it literally, since we know that a king's formal attire is not washed in cold water, and since a face mask is sometimes part of the king's formal attire, therefore you also can not wash the face mask with cold water."

Then Sujato says, since it's metaphorical, therefore the Buddha's instruction actually means,

"Don't personally wash the face mask yourself."

Conclusion

You see the problem with Sujato's sophistry?

Essentially it eliminates important details about cleaning (simile for meditation) and is a completely useless instruction that tells you nothing.

It becomes a superfluous statement that's a complete waste of time and space.

In an oral tradition like the Buddha's, short formulas like the jhanas are important - every word usually has meaning. There is no time and space for superfluous statements that don't add information.

 

Appendix: 

Search for: Is dry cleaning toxic to humans?

excerpts from info extracted osha.gov and cdc.gov (USA gov. agencies) on a google search:

Is dry cleaning chemicals safe?

Do the chemicals threaten the health of people who work at the dry cleaners? Absolutely. 

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) says, “As a volatile organic solvent, perc may pose serious health hazards if exposure is not properly controlled.Apr 23, 2018

Is working in a dry cleaners dangerous?

Perchloroethylene (PERC), a potential human carcinogen, is the most commonly used dry cleaning solvent. Symptoms associated with exposure include: depression of the central nervous system; damage to the liver and kidneys; impaired memory; confusion; dizziness; headache; drowsiness; and eye, nose, and throat irritation.

Are dry cleaning chemicals carcinogenic?

The NIOSH study was done to confirm earlier reports that showed an increased risk of bladder cancer among workers in dry-cleaning. We also know that animals exposed to relatively high levels of perc fumes develop other types of cancer.

Forum discussion

Re: simile of the face mask, the difference between the Buddha, Abhidhamma, and Sujato

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Post by frank k » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:15 am

Just a reminder for people, Dhamma wheel forum doesn't notify OP when replies are made, unless you quote reply from their post and it tags their name.

My reponse to bb below:

BrokenBones wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:18 amFrank, I agree with you 100%... but...

there's probably no need to be so judgmental of Bhante Sujato. I think you can make the argument quite easily of Bhante Sujato's obviously mistaken interpretation without recourse to denigration... his view seems to be a view backed up by his own personal experience (wrong experience/interpretation), it doesn't quite equate to sophistry... just mistaken.

Hard jhana's seem to be a real thing and I can see how some could take them as Samma Samadhi... even though they're not.

Once the mistake has been made and invested in, it's only human nature to cut bits off the jigsaw puzzle to make them fit. Obviously this isn't ideal and needs to be highlighted, which you do.

As far as I am aware, Bhante Sujato upholds the Vinaya.

den·i·gra·tion: the action of unfairly criticizing someone or something.
soph·ist·ry: the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

I did not denigrate Sujato. I described what he did accurately, backed it up with evidence. If the truth of that is harsh, well it's because truth can be harsh. But harsh truth does not make a messenger guilty of denigration.
I suppose you could say labeling him a 'sophist' is unfair because I can't easily prove an intent for fraudulent deceit (according to definition of sophistry I quoted above).
I didn't mean sophistry in that sense, I meant it in just the main sense of making fallacious arguments.
What would be a more fair word to use to describe it? Eel wriggling? Weaseling?

As far as I can tell, Sujato follows Vinaya to the letter from his public activity. He's a terrific human being, a well liked monk. But with his translation of jhana related passages, he is not acting in good faith, is not acting with an internal spirit of vinaya in terms of honesty and integrity.
Many people privately and publicly have complained to him about his translation of jhana related passages.
A person of integrity would at least make a token attempt to justify his interpretation and address the complaints.
For example, his sophist approach to translating vitakka and vicara, he bases it on only two suttas, MN 19 and AN 3.100.
When it's pointed out that MN 20, MN 78, MN 111, MN 125, AN 3.60, and many other suttas thoroughly disprove his sophistic arguments, he completely ignores all the evidence.
At least Bhikkhu Analayo tried to address MN 111 (and in the process indict himself with his fallacious circular arguments).
The fact that Sujato deliberately ignores the mountain of indisputable evidence against his erroneous interpretation, that's a strong signal of someone who knows they're wrong, though we can't legally prove it.
I can't prove he's dishonest and has a lack of integrity, but I can point out he's behaving exactly like someone who is.