Sujato's problematic translation of 'rupa' as 'vision' (rather than 'material form' or just 'form' as other translators do)
Also, it would be good for Sujato to follow his own translation guideline of 'principle of least meaning'.
Obviously, eyes can see 'material form', and would retain the consistency with the passages where 'rupa' is explicitly defined as 'material form made up of 4 elements.'
By translating 'rupa' as 'vision' for the context of eyes seeing objects, Sujato is violating his 'principle of least meaning' and giving an exclusionary context where rupa would NOT include 'material form', only an immaterial 'vision'.
Also, if he is going to violate his own rules, he should justify it with an essay and provide evidence to support it.
If Sujato ever clarifies what he means by that, please share. As far as I can tell, his reason for translating it that way, is the same reason Vism. ambiguates the term Rupa to justify making the 4 jhanas into a formless attainment. But his translation of rupa as 'vision' gets into weirdness, when it's obvious 'rupa' in those contexts are referring to the affliction of having a physical body. For example, see MN 13 where rupa and kaya are both explicitly referring to decaying corpses in kayagata kayaanupassana practice. And Snp 16 (or 17) pingiya sutta, where he's talking about the afflictions of old age breaking down his rupa physical body, sujato translates it there as 'form', rather than 'vision'. In other words, he knows 'vision' wouldn't fit there, so he has to do rupa = 'form'.
In English, if you say 'orange', it can be a visible color, or it can be a physical fruit. But if you say, "I see orange", you wouldn't translate that as "I see visible color in the visual spectrum under 20khz". You would just say "I see orange". Similarly with 'rupa', just becuase you can see 'material form', doesn't mean you should translate it as "vision" when it's paired up with eye and seeing faculty.
ssasny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:42 amHi, I think you are asking why Ven. Sujāto has rendered rūpā and rūpasaññā as 'visions' and 'perceptions of visions'?
Instead of the more obvious 'material forms' and 'perceptions of forms'?
Good question!
Have you looked at the commentary? Perhaps he is following a commentarial gloss? Could be worth posting this question directly to him on his forum at suttacentral.
Link to lucid24.org home page : 4👑☸ Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2026 1-30 Overhauled the DN, MN, SN menu pages - Supreme navigation January 30, 2026 2025 12-16 2025-12 December: Major update on look and feel of Lucid24.org 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years. Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space. At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think 🔗📝notes relat...
HHDL = His holiness, the Dalai Lama I've collected good references here, including the actual video, and snippets from forums discussions containing valid critcism and explanations of cultural context, and most importantly, what the rules of the actual vinaya that buddhist monks are supposed to follow: 1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue At the time of this writing, HHDL is about 88 years old. He has an exemplary record devoting his life to compassionate service to all living beings, as a Tibetan Buddhist monk. In this age of 'me too', everyone with a cell phone with high resolution cameras, and the ability to quickly publicize any indiscretion or sexual crime, we've seen sexual predators in positions of power being exposed and convicted. Leaders of large corporations, governments, professional sports, doctors, leaders in all religions. Tibetan Buddhism has an especially poor track record with corrupt sexual predators. https://thewal...
Ajahn Mun Bio, account of conversation with Buddhas excerpt from p.172 Venerable Ãcariya Mun Bhýridatta Thera: A Spiritual Biography by Ãcariya Mahã Boowa Ñãõasampanno. http://www.forestdhamma.org/ebooks/english/pdf/Acariya_Mun__A_Spiritual_Biography.pdf On the nights subsequent to Ãcariya Mun’s attainment of vimutti, a number of Buddhas, accompanied by their Arahant disciples, came to congratulate him on his vimuttidhamma. One night, a certain Buddha, accompanied by tens of thousands of Arahant disciples, came to visit; the next night, he was visited by another Buddha who was accompanied by hundreds of thousands of Arahant disciples. Each night a different Buddha came to express his appreciation, accompanied by a different number of Arahant disciples. Ãcariya Mun stated that the number of accompanying Arahant disciples varied according to each Buddha’s relative accumulation of merit – a factor that differed from one Buddha to the next. Many critics cite that passa...
STED definitions
Comments
Post a Comment