viveka not just 'seclusion', but 'judicious seclusion': SN 16.4, MN 4, AN 8.30

Re: Aloneness

Post by frank k » Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:29 am

mjaviem wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 5:33 am
frank k wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:48 amCould you guys show sutta reference numbers preferably, or pali sutta titles when you post quotes?
Looking at sutta translations without pali, is like reading news articles that won't name sources or go through editors and vetting process.
...

SN 16.4: Buddha asks mahā kassapa why he continues practicing difficult austerities, he replies for "aloneness":
viveka (judicous-seclusion) - commonly misunderstood as 'seclusion', the Buddha's definition of viveka is not just 'seclusion'. It means one has right view and discernment that led them to seclusion. Compared to for example, a unabomber terrorist, or any of a number of reasons why one would choose seclusion.
asaṃsaggassa (aloofness) - this is the opposite of someone who likes to gather and associate with people

MN 4: eka-t-ta (alone). eka = one, single. This is probably the word you're looking for when you want the English 'alone'.
Where viveka comes up, it's in the process of Buddha using right view and discernment to weed out the hindrance and launch the 7 awakening factors and four jhanas.
So again, 'viveka' was not just 'seclusion', it was 'judicious-seclusion' or discriminative separation arrived at from right view. It wasn't the seclusion of someone who loves sensual pleasures but was just temporarily sick of it and wanted a short vacation "secluded" from them, but really just wants to return to sensual pleasures after a break.

AN 8.30 eight great thoughts of first jhāna
Here viveka again shows discernment, not just seclusion.
the viveka is shown as supporting action for nekhhamma (renunciation), the first aspect of right resolve that is the opposite of kāma (lust, sensual pleasures).

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'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings: (1) true knowledge, (2) discretion, (3) right judgement, (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348 The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...

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