Skip to main content

Sujato and his famous friends get into all the V.I.P. rooms in the hottest spots in town, anywhere in the world

 I use this simile to show the fallacious reasoning Sujato uses to justify translating third jhāna's body as "mind devoid of physical body that personally experiences things".

I include a fictional Sujato character in the simile, to make it memorable and easy to connect all the ideas of  3rd jhāna body, nine attainments, this simile,  and Sujato's erroneous understanding of how and when to interpret kāya/body metaphorically.

(fictional) Sujato is good friends with Tom Cruise, arguably the most famous actor/celebrity in the world.

They frequently socialize with a group of 9 friends (including themselves), visiting the hottest restaurants, night clubs, etc.

Tom Cruise and four of the friends are all internationally famous celebrities (5 total).

Sujato and the three remaining friends (4 total) are not famous, and would go unrecognized at most places they visit as a group of 9 friends. 

Everywhere they travelled as a group of 9, they would get the V.I.P. (Very important person) treatment. 

Sitting in a VIP room, or a VIP table, all kinds of special perks.


One time, Sujato and three of the non-famous members of the group of 9 went to a restaurant by themselves and asked to sit in the VIP room.

Even though the host of the restaurant recognized Sujato as as friend of Tom Cruise, the host refused to seat Sujato and his party of 4 in the VIP room.

He explained, "I'm sorry sir. Even though you are sometimes in a group with Tom Cruise and then we definitely seat you in the VIP room, today you are in a group of regular non-famous people, so we are not allowed to seat you there. 

You and your party of 4 (jhāna friends) have to stay in the area of regular (jhāna) people.

You are only allowed VIP access when you happened to be grouped with one of the 5 famous friends (formless attainment group).


Conclusion:

Sujato overstepped his bounds in translating and interpreting third jhāna kāya (body) as metaphorical, since in that context 3rd jhāna is part of the group of four jhānas, not part of the 5 formless attainments.

Aside from the 4 jhānas context, the Buddha is also using the language that contrasts body and mind, "sukham ca kāyena patisamvedeti", to resolve the ambuguity of a vedana/sensation potentially being body only or mind only (pati-sam-vedeti). 

So the Buddha is explicitly clarifying that the sukha (pleasure) vedana (sensation/experience) is physical, not mental. 



Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Lucid24.org: What's new?

Link to lucid24.org home page :    4👑☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think 🔗📝notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paṭhamampāhaṁ,   bhikkhave,   jhānaṁ   nissāya   āsavānaṁ   khayaṁ   vadāmī’ti,   iti   kho   panetaṁ   vuttaṁ. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Kiñcetaṁ   paṭicca   vuttaṁ? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...

Pāḷi and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

  'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...