Skip to main content

AN 7.69 Buddha only allows ariya noble ones to ordain as monks? Really?

 

AN 7.69 Buddha only allows ariya to ordain as monks? Really?


Such is the majesty of the Shady Orchid Tree.

In the same way, when a noble disciple plans to go forth from the lay life to homelessness, they’re like the Shady Orchid Tree when its leaves turn brown.



B. Bodhi makes same mistake

(1) “So too, bhikkhus, when a noble disciple intends to go forth from the household life into homelessness, on that occasion he is one whose foliage has turned yellow, like the Tāvatiṃsa devas’ pāricchattaka coral tree.



MA 2:   BDK translation, Agama chinese parallel, same problem

https://lucid24.org/agama/ma/bdk/index.html#2

Again, [when the buds of] the coral tree of the thirty-three gods have opened up and resemble bowls, the thirty-three gods are happy and rejoice:
“The coral tree wil soon be in ful bloom!”
When the coral tree is in ful bloom, the radiance it emits, the color it reflects, and the fragrance it emits spread a hundred leagues around.
Then, for the four months of the summer season the thirty-three gods amuse themselves equipped with the five types of divine sense pleasure.
This is [how] the thirty-three gods assemble and amuse themselves beneath their coral tree.

It is just the same with the noble disciple.
When thinking of leaving the household life, the noble disciple is reckoned as having withered leaves, like the withered leaves of the coral tree of the thirty-three gods.

Again, the noble disciple shaves off [his] hair and beard, dons the yel ow robe, and, out of faith, leaves the household life, becomes homeless, and practices the path.
At this time the noble disciple is reckoned as one whose leaves have fal en, like the fal ing of the leaves of the coral tree of the thirty-three gods.


Conclusion

Ariya savaka = Disciple of the Noble Ones, not necessarily a noble one themself.

Pali and Chinese both ambiguous in how ariya-savaka can be interpreted, but logic and context dictate there's only one way to translate it correctly if you're going to translate it consistently everywhere.



Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha

SN 48.40 Ven. Thanissaro comments on Ven. Sunyo's analysis

This was Ven. Sunyo's analysis of SN 48.40: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/05/exciting-news-honest-ebt-scholars-like.html And here is Ven. Thanissaro's response to that analysis: I think there’s a better way to tackle the issue of SN 48:40 than by appealing to the oldest layers of commentarial literature. That way is to point out that SN 48:40, as we have it, doesn’t pass the test in DN 16 for determining what’s genuine Dhamma and what’s not. There the standard is, not the authority of the person who’s claiming to report the Buddha’s teachings, but whether the teachings he’s reporting are actually in accordance with the principles of the Dhamma that you know. So the simple fact that those who have passed the Buddha’s teachings down to us say that a particular passage is what the Buddha actually taught is not sufficient grounds for accepting it. In the case of the jhānas—the point at issue here— we have to take as our guide the standard formula for the jhānas, a

1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue

To give more context, this is a public event,  * everyone knows cameras are rolling  *  it's a room full of children * the boy's mom is standing off camera a few feet away watching all of this * the boy initiated contact, he had already had a hug with Dalai Lama earlier and then asked Dalai Lama for another hug which triggered this segment  17 min. video showing what happened before that 1 min. clip and after, with some explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78 16min talk from Ajahn Acalo with his thoughts on Dalai Lama kissing boy, relevance to Bhikkhu monastic code, sexual predators in religion in general, and how celibate monastics deal with sexual energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2m0TcUib0 The child's comments about the incident in a filmed interview later https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/04/18/643eba5d46163ffc078b457c.html The child: It's a great experience It was amazing to meet His Holiness and I think it's a great ex