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AN 4.41: what's the difference between S&S and samadhi bhavana for asava destruction?


Samadhi Sutta - qestion?

Post by SarathW » 

(section 3) "And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness? There is the case where feelings are known to the monk as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Perceptions are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness.

(section 4)"And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents? There is the case where a monk remains focused on arising & falling away with reference to the five clinging-aggregates: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is feeling, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is perception, such its origination, such its passing away. Such are fabrications, such their origination, such their passing away. Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.' This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

What is the difference between the highlighted in blue?


Answer

First of all, AN 4.41 samadhi sutta, all 4 sections are dealing with the four jhanas. 
section 3 talks about sati and sampajano  S&S🐘💭 . This corresponds with 3rd jhana formula's explicit declaration of "sato ca sampajano", and is describing how one does vipassana in 3rd jhana. MN 111 and AN 9.36 confirm this point. 

section 4 talks about pañña realizing destruction of asavas (i.e. arahant), see panna-indriya, it uses the same words as AN 4.41 for arising and passing away (udaya,  gaminiya).The sanskrit parallel to AN 4.41, Arv 12, is very interesting in that it explicitly states that the 4th jhana is what one uses to realize the development of samadhi for (panna). That's equivalent to AN 6.29's saying 4th jhana is for "penetrating the many elements (aneka dhatu pativedaya)", and panna-indriya stated purpose for destroying dukkha. All of these are equivalent to realizing state of arahant. 


note that sampajano, panna, dhamma-vicaya-sambojjhanga,  are all closely related. They all have to do with lucid discerning, discernment/wisdom, dhamma-investigation, vimamsa/discrimination, and ultimately for the goal of realizing arahantship. 

sampajāno = lucid-discerning

in verb form: pajānāti (he discerns). See SN 54.1, MN 10, 3⚡💭.
Frequently occurs in the phrase S&S🐘💭 sati & sampajāno.
Sampajāno is what Dhamma-vicaya 2💭🕵️ (Dharma investigation) does in the 7sb☀️ awakening factors.
Sampajāno is equivalent and/or closely associated with pañña/discernment 5👁, vimāmsa/discrimination of 4ip 🌕⚡, right view 1👁, vipassana/insight (see SN 46.3).


So the answer to the question, what's the difference between section 3 and section 4 of AN 4.41, in section 4 all 5 aggregates are being penetrated all the way to arahantship. 

In section 3, while it's also observing rising and falling of 2 of the aggregates vedana and sanna, the 3rd item being observed is vitakka, referring to to perceptions and attention to vitakka/thoughts arising. 
In second jhana, this would be the subverbal citta sankharas that are bubbling under vitakka, but not fully formed yet into a thought. 
Or it can refer to all four jhanas being intruded upon and ending that jhana state with a vitakka. 

So even though section 3 and 4 of AN 4.41 are very similar, section 4 is deeper, and section 3 is obviously addressing the typical flow of mental activity while in especially the first 3 jhanas. 



samadhi for pleasant abiding, (STED 3rd Jhāna)

🚫😁 pītiyā ca virāgā
🚫😁(with) Rapture ** fading,
👁 upekkhako ca viharati
👁 Equanimously-observing ** (he) dwells,
(S&S🐘💭) sato ca sam-pajāno,
(S&S🐘💭) (he is a) Rememberer, (a) lucid-discerner,
🙂🚶 sukhañca kāyena paṭi-saṃ-vedeti,
🙂🚶 pleasure with-the-body (he) experiences,
yaṃ taṃ ariyā ācikkhanti —
that those Noble-Ones declare -
‘upekkhako satimā sukha-vihārī’ti
“(He is an) equanimous-observer (and a) Rememberer, (he has) pleasurable-abiding.”
🌖 tatiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.
🌖 third Jhāna (he) enters, dwells.


section 3 explains what S&S is doing from 3rd jhana:

Katamā ca, bhikkhave, samādhi-bhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā
{and} what, *********, undistractible-lucidity-development, when developed (and) pursued,
Sati-sampajañ-ñāya saṃvattati?
(to) remembering-(and)-lucid-discerning (it) leads?
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
Here, monks, a-monk:
viditā vedanā uppajjanti,
known (are) Experienced-sensations (as they) arise,
viditā upaṭṭhahanti,
known (as they are) attended-upon,
viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.
known (as they) go to disappear.
viditā saññā uppajjanti,
known (are) perceptions (as they) arise,
viditā upaṭṭhahanti,
known (as they are) attended-upon,
viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.
known (as they) go to disappear.
viditā vitakkā uppajjanti,
known (are) thoughts (as they) arise,
viditā upaṭṭhahanti,
known (as they are) attended-upon,
viditā abbhatthaṃ gacchanti.
known (as they) go to disappear.
Ayaṃ, bhikkhave, samādhi-bhāvanā bhāvitā bahulīkatā
This, *********, undistractible-lucidity-development, when developed (and) pursued,
Sati-sampajañ-ñāya saṃvattati.
remembering-(and)-lucid-discerning (it) leads-to.


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