What do you guys think?
It nicely shifts the focus away from whether the savaka is noble or not, which is irrelevant.
The original context where the phrase 'ariya savaka' is used, is to contrast between
* an uneducated ordinary person who follows the savage ways that lead to suffering,
* versus an educated disciple following the Buddha's teaching on nobleness, undertaking the process of en-nobling oneself.
It's not to contrast whether
* one is an adept or novice or black belt at the ways of the ordinary person,
* versus whether one is a stream enterer or arahant in the noble path.
minowani.github.io/bits/100-Ariyasavaka.html)
That's an interesting idea. I'd never considered that.
Is that your own innovation? Has that been adopted by any translators previously, in pāḷi, chinese, agamas, or any other sutta translation?
Ah, but you see, I take the other translations as innovative...
minowani.github.io/bits/100-Ariyasavaka.html
But don't the commentaries frequently claim ariya savaka as being a noble one or not depending on specific suttas?
Where the claim is made, there lies the accountability.
Note that this alternative doesn't take any nobleness from anyone away, it just makes it beside the point.
yes, I agree. I like it. I think I will adopt it.
Probably "disciple of [Teachings on] nobleness".
because 'disciple of nobleness' is still ambiguous enough to be read as someone who is noble.
Language is ambiguous but properly done it allows for growth. It can be a handy tool for a reader to think and ponder on. I found the well readable but limiting translations often problematic. Even here, if one reads it as you fear it is not worse than the general translations, it is even familiar. But one doesn't need to be a 'disciple of teachings on nobleness' to be a 'disciple of nobleness'. Depending on which nuances you see you might ask if the remedy is not worse. I left the ambiguity on purpose because of the two benefits just mentioned and because in the personification of the abstract it does work, which might even work inspiring. But if you have a need to limit it don't forget to check the suttas to see if they do fit well.
Excerpt from his article on ariya-savaka
minowani.github.io/bits/100-Ariyasavaka.html)
Minowani's Writings
on what the Buddha taught
Ariyasāvaka is often found translated as noble disciple.
It is a compound formed with the words ariya and sāvaka. Ariya is said to refer to the generally approved and esteemed customs and ideals of the Aryan clans. It covers the racial, social and ethical aspects, translated as noble. And sāvaka means hearer or disciple.
Noble disciple, though grammatically correct, seems to indicate the disciple as the noble one. But note that for the arahant sāvaka is being used which makes it a little odd. Another rendering is disciple of the noble ones but again, for the arahant (also a disciple) ‘just’ sāvakā is used. Both translations leave some oddness, trying to assign a noble one.
But noble here stood for the social and ethical direction. It is about the hearer, learner of the good, the highest, righteousness, of all of those traits for which Aryan stood example. Ariya is here used as brand generification so to speak. Ariyasāvaka then means something like ‘disciple of the good’, and how lovely is that? Since the arahant is done with going, that direction towards the good does not apply.
To stay close to common translations I use disciple of nobleness.
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