J.R. commented on my recent Snp 1.11 post:
A-subha theatre, KN 1.11 Vijaya/victory
Hello! Can you provide me with your explanation of dependent origination as it is used in this context? (As this is, so is that. As that is, so is this.) And how you would understand it here/perhaps your general understanding of it? Thank you
Frankk response
It's common in verse such as Snp to use variants of standard formulas.
Snp 1.11's
So kho naṁ parijānāti, | fully understands it, |
Yathābhūtañhi passati. | for they see it as it is. |
Yathā idaṁ tathā etaṁ, | “As this is, so is that, |
Yathā etaṁ tathā idaṁ; | as that is, so is this.” |
Ajjhattañca bahiddhā ca, | They’d reject desire for the body |
Kāye chandaṁ virājaye. | inside and out. |
Chandarāgaviratto so, | That wise monk here |
Bhikkhu paññāṇavā idha; | rid of desire and lust, |
Ajjhagā amataṁ santiṁ, | has found the deathless peace, |
Nibbānaṁ padamaccutaṁ. | nirvana, the imperishable state. |
Is simply following the Buddha's enlightenment using the 12ps formula in Ud 1.1:
rattiyā paṭhamaṁ yāmaṁ | In the first part of the night, |
paṭiccasamuppādaṁ anulomaṁ sādhukaṁ manasākāsi: | he reflected on dependent origination in forward order: |
“Iti imasmiṁ sati idaṁ hoti, | “When this exists, that is; |
imassuppādā idaṁ uppajjati, | due to the arising of this, that arises. |
yadidaṁ— | That is: |
avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā, | Ignorance is a condition for co-doings. |
(the remaining 12ps follows)
In both cases, Snp 1.11 and Ud 1.1,
deeply investigating 12ps leads to arahantship,
so there's no reason to believe that Snp 1.11 is using a variation of Ud 1.1's (when this is, that is)
to mean something specific and different for sensuality in Snp 1.11.
Okham's razor applies here.
There's already a fair amount of material in the oral tradition the Buddha expected his disciples to have memorized, it would be cruel to expect them to memorize Snp 1.11's variant (when this is, that is) and have to be such a specific and different meaning than the general case and standard 12ps formula.
SN 12 is the Samyutta collection on dependent origination.
SN 12.2 gives the most detailed analysis of what each of the 12 links represents.
It also answers your second question, of my general understanding of 12ps,
and connects the dots to your first question.
See the 3 kinds of craving and 4 kinds of clinging, and 4 kinds of becoming.
Also, note that in every bad guy wanted poster,
the Buddha always lists Kāma/sensuality number 1.
Kāma-taṇha (1st type of craving in the 2nd noble truth of suffering)
Kāma-c-chanda (1st of 5 hindrances)
Kāma-āsava (first of the asinine inclinations an arahant destroys)
first of the 3 cravings in 12ps's tanha link
the first thing one has to be temporarily understood and secluded from in 1st jhāna,
and so on.
SN 12.2 Vibhaṅga: Analysis
(2025 SP-FLUENT translation by frankk)
SN 12.2 - SN 12.2 Vibhaṅga: Analysis
SN 12.2.12 – (jarā-maraṇaṃ: Aging and death)
SN 12.2.11 – (jāti: Birth)
SN 12.2.10 – (bhavā: Becoming)
SN 12.2.9 – (upādānaṃ: Clinging)
SN 12.2.8 – (taṇhā: Craving)
SN 12.2.7 – (vedanā: sensation)
SN 12.2.6 – (phassa: Contact)
SN 12.2.5 – (saḷ-āyatanaṃ: Sense-media)
SN 12.2.4 – (nāma-rūpaṃ: Name-and-form)
SN 12.2.3 – (viññāṇaṃ: Consciousness)
SN 12.2.2 – (saṅkhārā: co-activities)
SN 12.2.1 – (a-vijjā: Ignorance)

Thank you very much, very grateful for this.
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