Skip to main content

AN 8.63, MN 128 samādhi in 3 ways, Sujato's first jhāna progression to higher jhānas in general is completely nonsensical

 The  samādhi in 3 ways referenced in AN 8.63, MN 128:


AN 8.63, my translation, with correct interpretation of a rare  5th type of jhāna 


(samādhi in 3 ways fulfills (7sb → 1-6 🐘💭… 🌄) and 4j jhānas)
imaṃ samādhiṃ
this undistractible-lucidty
(1) sa-vi-takkampi sa-vicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi,
(1) with-directed-thought & with-evaluation (you should) develop,
(2) a-vi-takkampi vicāra-mattaṃ bhāveyyāsi,
(2) Without-directed-thought & a-modicum-of-evaluation (you should) develop,
(3) a-vi-takkampi a-vicāraṃ bhāveyyāsi,
(3) Without-directed-thought & wiithout-evaluation (you should) develop,
Sap-pīti-kampi bhāveyyāsi,
(7sb → 4. 😁) With-rapture (you should) develop,
nip-pīti-kampi bhāveyyāsi,
Without-rapture (you should) develop,
sāta-sahagatampi bhāveyyāsi,
Endowed-with-satisfaction (you should) develop,
upekkhā-sahagatampi bhāveyyāsi.
(7sb → 7. 🛆👁 ) Endowed-with-equanimous-observation (you should) develop,


For the four jhāna formula, the part I have highlighted basically adds a 5th jhāna, one in between first and second jhāna.


That means,  directed thought (vitakka)  has fixed on a Dharma topic thought to evaluate (vicāra) and explore in more detail,  the 'modicum of vicāra' continues to explore the thought (vitakka), and vitakka term drops out of that stage because it's not changing at this point. For example, one maybe locked in doing metta instead of breath meditation, and evaluation is deciding on what direction to pervade that energy. 


Sujato's nonsensical vitakka + vicāra of 'placing the mind' and 'keeping it connected'

Sujato's  version AN 8.63:


That’s how you should train.Evañhi te, bhikkhu, sikkhitabbaṁ.

When this immersion is well developed and cultivated in this way, you should develop it while placing the mind and keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind, but just keeping it connected. You should develop it without placing the mind or keeping it connected. You should develop it with rapture. You should develop it without rapture. You should develop it with pleasure. You should develop it with equanimity.Yato kho te, bhikkhu, ayaṁ samādhi evaṁ bhāvito hoti bahulīkato, tato tvaṁ, bhikkhu, imaṁ samādhiṁ savitakkampi savicāraṁ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi vicāra-mattaṁ bhāveyyāsi, avitakkampi avicāraṁ bhāveyyāsi, sappītikampi bhāveyyāsi, nippītikampi bhāveyyāsi, sātasahagatampi bhāveyyāsi, upekkhāsahagatampi bhāveyyāsi. Variant: savitakkampi savicāraṁ → savitakkasavicārampi (mr) | avitakkampi vicāramattaṁ → avitakkavicāramattampi (mr) | avitakkampi avicāraṁ → avitakkaavicārampi (mr)


The part I highlighted and underlined, is referencing the same 5th type of jhāna, except with Sujato's dictionary of redefined jhāna and vitakka, it means a modicum (mattam)  of 'keeping the mind connected".  

What does that mean, having some modicum (matta) of  vicāra of  'keeping the mind connected'? What's the mind in samādhi doing during the time when it's not 'connected'?

For that matter, when you transition between Sujato's regular first jhāna to regular second jhāna without that intermediate stage,  how can you stop 'keeping the mind connected' from second jhāna and beyond?

So this 5th type of jhāna really highlights what's already a problem in Sujato's standard four jhāna formula.


SN 45.8: Vibhaṅgasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) (excerpt showing Sujato's first and second jhāna)


And what is right immersion?Katamo ca, bhikkhave, sammāsamādhi?It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.As the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, they enter and remain in the second absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of immersion, with internal clarity and confidence, and unified mind, without placing the mind and keeping it connected.Vitakkavicārānaṁ vūpasamā ajjhattaṁ sampasādanaṁ cetaso ekodibhāvaṁ avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhijaṁ pītisukhaṁ dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati.


Sujato's first jhāna of 'placing the mind' means the mind wavers and tries to lose connection with the visual kasina, and it needs to continue issuing 'vitakka' to stay glued to the kasina. 

For Sujato's second jhāna and beyond to work, the mind needs to 'stay connected' (his vicāra) to the visual kasina.

That means vicāra can't drop out like it does in the standard second jhāna formula, only vitakka should drop out.


This is just completely deranged and nonsensical. 


Even if you accept his redefined jhāna model, his 5th jhāna instruction of the 3 way samādhi still makes no sense


You should develop it without placing the mind, but just keeping it connected.


How do you keep the mind connected to the visual kasina, without first having to 'place the mind (on a visual kasina)' (with vitakka)?


Does Sujato ever try to follow his own translation meditation instruction in real life? 

Does he teach his students that way? 

I'd like to see his students 'keeping it connected to the visual kasina without first placing the mind on the visual kasina.' That would be quite a remarkable accomplishment.


Sujato also failed to translate the 'matta' (modicum) part of  'vicāra-matta', meaning vicāra is not fully active. He's deliberately mistranslating the word to turn the Buddha's jhāna into his redefined one. If he were to translate it correctly, it should read something like:

You should develop it without placing the mind, but partially or sometimes keeping it connected.

(and what is it doing during the times it's not connected? counting sheep? taking a nap?)


And by the way, the Buddha never talks about visual kasina in AN 8.63, 

So really, when Sujato teaches his students jhāna in the words of the Buddha from AN 8.63, they're not getting the instruction  'keeping it connected to the visual kasina without first placing the mind on the visual kasina.',

They're hearing, "keep it connected without first placing the mind."

Keep what connected to what? Without first placing the mind on what? 

That's Buddhist meditation? That's jhāna?



Comments

Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha...
Post a Comment
Read more

SN 48.40 Ven. Thanissaro comments on Ven. Sunyo's analysis

This was Ven. Sunyo's analysis of SN 48.40: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/05/exciting-news-honest-ebt-scholars-like.html And here is Ven. Thanissaro's response to that analysis: I think there’s a better way to tackle the issue of SN 48:40 than by appealing to the oldest layers of commentarial literature. That way is to point out that SN 48:40, as we have it, doesn’t pass the test in DN 16 for determining what’s genuine Dhamma and what’s not. There the standard is, not the authority of the person who’s claiming to report the Buddha’s teachings, but whether the teachings he’s reporting are actually in accordance with the principles of the Dhamma that you know. So the simple fact that those who have passed the Buddha’s teachings down to us say that a particular passage is what the Buddha actually taught is not sufficient grounds for accepting it. In the case of the jhānas—the point at issue here— we have to take as our guide the standard formula for the jhānas, a...
Post a Comment
Read more

1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue

To give more context, this is a public event,  * everyone knows cameras are rolling  *  it's a room full of children * the boy's mom is standing off camera a few feet away watching all of this * the boy initiated contact, he had already had a hug with Dalai Lama earlier and then asked Dalai Lama for another hug which triggered this segment  17 min. video showing what happened before that 1 min. clip and after, with some explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78 16min talk from Ajahn Acalo with his thoughts on Dalai Lama kissing boy, relevance to Bhikkhu monastic code, sexual predators in religion in general, and how celibate monastics deal with sexual energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2m0TcUib0 The child's comments about the incident in a filmed interview later https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/04/18/643eba5d46163ffc078b457c.html The child: It's a great experience It was amazing to meet His Holiness and I think it's a great ex...
Post a Comment
Read more