🔗📝 collection of notes on Visuddhi-magga

4👑☸ → 🏛️ → Vism. = Visuddhi-magga

contradictions found:

4.11.5 simile of cook, nimitta gets redefined as visual VRJ kasina

Vuttampi cetaṃ bhagavatā – 122.And this has been said by the Blessed One:

(The cook sutta, SN 47.8, in EBT samādhi nimitta are not VRJ👻🥶 visual kasinas! They are the 5 types of skillful Dharma thoughts & perceptions to abandon unskillful mental states MN 20)

4.15.5 gloss: sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṃvedetī: physical rūpa-kāya is included by 'kāya'

Idāni sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṃvedetīti ettha kiñcāpi tatiyajjhānasamaṅgino sukhapaṭisaṃvedanābhogo natthi.	175. Now, as to the clause he feels bliss with his body: here, although in one actually possessed of the third jhāna there is no concern about feeling bliss,
Evaṃ santepi yasmā tassa nāmakāyena sampayuttaṃ sukhaṃ.	nevertheless he would feel the bliss associated with his mental body,
Yaṃ vā taṃ nāmakāyasampayuttaṃ sukhaṃ, taṃsamuṭṭhānenassa yasmā atipaṇītena rūpena rūpakāyo phuṭo, yassa phuṭattā jhānā vuṭṭhitopi sukhaṃ paṭisaṃvedeyya.	and after emerging from the jhāna he would also feel bliss since his material body would have been affected by the exceedingly superior matter originated by that bliss associated with the mental body. 48
Tasmā etamatthaṃ dassento sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṃvedetīti āha.	It is in order to point to this meaning that the words “he feels bliss with his body” are said.

frankk Analysis of 4.15.5:

Vism. is equivocal about what kāya means here, in the 3rd jhāna formula.

They include both nāma-kāya and rūpa kāya as experiencing sukha.

However, they imply that while in appanā (frozen stupor of VRJ jhāna), one does not feel the physical rūpa kāya, but only the mental nāma-kāya.

But after emerging from VRJ jhāna, one would then also experience physical sukha of rūpa kāya.

So what are they claiming the Buddha meant by his instructions with 'kāya' in 3rd jhāna?

1. only nāma-kāya, which is what most LBT Vism., Abhidhamma, Sujato, Brahm will claim.

2. only rūpa-kāya, which is what genuine EBT jhāna would say (excluding fake EBT of Sujato, Brahm).

3. Both nāma-kāya and rūpa-kāya, which is how Vism. reads to me. The problem is, the Buddha, in passages such as KN Snp 5.7, by explicitly referencing realizing nirvana by being freed from nāma-kāya while in dimension of nothingness, shows he does specify nāma or rūpa kāya when it matters, and that when it's not in contexts such as Snp 5.7 formless dimension, we can safely assume unqualified rūpa, is referring to adjhatta rūpa (internal, meditator's physical body).

In other words, Position #1 is unsupportable, and position #3 is just dogmatic Abhidhamma followers desperately clutching at straws trying to equivocate an explanation that will harmonize the irreconciliable contradictions between EBT and LBT text.