Skip to main content

MN 106 Sujato šŸ§‡can't decide what rÅ«pa means in the formless (a-rÅ«pa) attainments

 In MN 106, it's talking about how to attain the formless dimensions, where the mind becomes divorced from the 5 senses of the body. 


In his translation of the standard formula for dimension of infinite space, he translates 'rūpa' correctly as 'form' (materiality made up of 4 elements)

SN 54.8: PadÄ«popamasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net)

Now, a mendicant might wish:Tasmātiha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu cepi Äkaį¹…kheyya:‘Going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the ending of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that “space is infinite”, may I enter and remain in the dimension of infinite space.’‘sabbaso rÅ«pasaƱƱānaṁ samatikkamā paį¹­ighasaƱƱānaṁ atthaį¹…gamā nānattasaƱƱānaṁ amanasikārā ananto Äkāsoti ÄkāsānaƱcāyatanaṁ upasampajja vihareyyan’ti,So let them closely focus on this immersion due to mindfulness of breathing.ayameva Änāpānassatisamādhi sādhukaṁ manasi kātabbo.


 šŸ§‡alert: But in MN 106, he suddenly can't decide whether rÅ«pa means 'visions' or 'form'. He changes translation in mid passage!


MN 106: ĀneƱjasappāyasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net)

Furthermore, a noble disciple reflects:Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, ariyasāvako iti paį¹­isaƱcikkhati:‘Sensual pleasures in this life and in lives to come,‘ye ca diį¹­į¹­hadhammikā kāmā, ye ca samparāyikā kāmā;sensual perceptions in this life and in lives to come;yā ca diį¹­į¹­hadhammikā kāmasaƱƱā, yā ca samparāyikā kāmasaƱƱā;whatever is form, all form is the four primary elements, or form derived from the four primary elements.’yaṁ kiƱci rÅ«paṁ sabbaṁ rÅ«paṁ cattāri ca mahābhÅ«tāni, catunnaƱca mahābhÅ«tānaṁ upādāyarÅ«pan’ti. Variant: rÅ«paṁ sabbaṁ rÅ«paṁ cattāri → yaṁ kiƱci rÅ«paṁ cattāri (bj, pts1ed)Practicing in this way and meditating on it often their mind becomes confident in this dimension.Tassa evaṁpaį¹­ipannassa tabbahulavihārino Äyatane cittaṁ pasÄ«dati.Being confident, they either attain the imperturbable now, or are freed by wisdom.Sampasāde sati etarahi vā ÄneƱjaṁ samāpajjati paƱƱāya vā adhimuccati kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā.When their body breaks up, after death, it’s possible that the consciousness headed that way will be reborn in the imperturbable.Ṭhānametaṁ vijjati yaṁ taṁsaṁvattanikaṁ viññāṇaṁ assa ÄneƱjÅ«pagaṁ.This is said to be the second way of practice suitable for attaining the imperturbable.Ayaṁ, bhikkhave, dutiyā ÄneƱjasappāyā paį¹­ipadā akkhāyati.

Furthermore, a noble disciple reflects:Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, ariyasāvako iti paį¹­isaƱcikkhati:‘Sensual pleasures in this life and in lives to come,‘ye ca diį¹­į¹­hadhammikā kāmā, ye ca samparāyikā kāmā;sensual perceptions in this life and in lives to come,yā ca diį¹­į¹­hadhammikā kāmasaƱƱā, yā ca samparāyikā kāmasaƱƱā;visions in this life and in lives to come,ye ca diį¹­į¹­hadhammikā rÅ«pā, ye ca samparāyikā rÅ«pā;perceptions of visions in this life and in lives to come;yā ca diį¹­į¹­hadhammikā rÅ«pasaƱƱā, yā ca samparāyikā rÅ«pasaƱƱāall of these are impermanent.ubhayametaṁ aniccaṁ.And what’s impermanent is not worth approving, welcoming, or clinging to.’Yadaniccaṁ taṁ nālaṁ abhinandituṁ, nālaṁ abhivadituṁ, nālaṁ ajjhositun’ti.Practicing in this way and meditating on it often their mind becomes confident in this dimension.Tassa evaṁpaį¹­ipannassa tabbahulavihārino Äyatane cittaṁ pasÄ«dati.Being confident, they either attain the imperturbable now, or are freed by wisdom.Sampasāde sati etarahi vā ÄneƱjaṁ samāpajjati paƱƱāya vā adhimuccati kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā.


What is Sujato thinking?


Does he know what this sutta is talking about? 

Does he know what his own translation is saying? Could he explain the meditation instructions to his students and they would know how to meditate based on his translation?


The real story

Sujato's  šŸ§‡ waffle adventures with translating 'rÅ«pa', as he does with 'vitakka' in first jhāna, probably has something to do with his agenda to redefine jhāna, and redefine the meditator's physical body (kāya, rÅ«pa). 


But how does it work? How does his translation make sense? Even when you corrupt the Buddha's words, you need to make sure it's coherent within its own context. I doubt Sujato could explain MN 106 to his students, let alone himself. 




Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Lucid24.org: What's new?

Link to lucid24.org home page :    4šŸ‘‘☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think šŸ”—šŸ“notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paį¹­hamampāhaṁ,   bhikkhave,   jhānaṁ   nissāya   āsavānaṁ   khayaṁ   vadāmÄ«’ti,   iti   kho   panetaṁ   vuttaṁ. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? KiƱcetaṁ   paį¹­icca   vuttaṁ? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...

Pāḷi and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

  'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...