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DN 2 concise proof that rūpa and kāya is the meditator's physical body in four jhānas, tie in to 8 vimokkha and 8 abhibhayatana

    DN 2100 – frankk commentary
        DN 2100.1 - 4 jhānas explicitly integrated into samādhi-sam-bojjhaṇga of 7 awakening factors
            DN 2100.1.1 – that 7sb 4jhāna model appears in up to half of all suttas in DN
        DN 2100.2 – There are 8 knowledges instead of the normal 6 abhiñña!
            DN 2100.2.1 – why? To unequivocally gloss the body (rūpa & kāya) as physical.
        DN 2100.3 – Tie in with 8 abhi-bha-ayatana and 8 vimokkha
            DN 2100.3.1 – showing that mind made body is also physical rūpa kāya

 




Forum discussion


https://www.reddit.com/r/theravada/comments/v9fp10/sujato_translating_r%C5%ABpa_as_visionsight_in_many/ic7e53x/?context=3

I'm struggling to understand what the controversy is. Are you certain there is any controversy at all?


frankk response: 

When you see 'visions', that can be CGI hollywood movies, it can be hallucinations that even novice meditators see with their eyes closed. What the Buddha is referring to with rūpa in the 8 vimokkha and 8 abhibhayatana are the rūpa of living, sentient beings with sense faculties that one can interact with live. They're real, they're there, they're not just 'visions.' If you look at the sequencing of AN 8.63 and the 4 following suttas, it's crystal clear the Buddha is referring to rupa being the nama rūpa real living bodies of devas that are seen, not 'visions' which may or may not be real. And this ability to see devas in other realms, hell beings, 31 parts of the body in real time, is dependent on imperturbable 4th jhāna and strong luminosity day and night, not a common ability for even expert monks and meditators.

It wouldn't be called a liberation (vimokkha) if it was the pedestrian ordinary meditator hallucination or breath nimitta 'vision'.

The real issue is Brahm and visuddhimagga try to ambiguate both kāya and rūpa into visual kasinas for their redefined jhāna.


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