Skip to main content

MN 88 Sujato error, puts in a golden rule where the pāḷi has silver rule

 

MN 88: Bāhitikasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (wrong)

“But what kind of bodily behavior is skillful?”“Katamo pana, bhante, kāyasamācāro kusalo”?

“Blameless behavior.”“Yo kho, mahārāja, kāyasamācāro anavajjo”.

“But what kind of bodily behavior is blameless?”“Katamo pana, bhante, kāyasamācāro anavajjo”?

Pleasing behavior.”“Yo kho, mahārāja, kāyasamācāro abyābajjho”.

“But what kind of bodily behavior is pleasing?”“Katamo pana, bhante, kāyasamācāro abyābajjho”?

“Behavior that results in happiness.”“Yo kho, mahārāja, kāyasamācāro sukhavipāko”.

“But what kind of bodily behavior results in happiness?”“Katamo pana, bhante, kāyasamācāro sukhavipāko”?

“Bodily behavior that leads to pleasing yourself, pleasing others, and pleasing both,“Yo kho, mahārāja, kāyasamācāro nevattabyābādhāyapi saṁvattati, na parabyābādhāyapi saṁvattati, na ubhayabyābādhāyapi saṁvattati.



B. Bodhi translation of same passage (correct)

14. “Now, venerable Ānanda, what kind of bodily behaviour is uncensured by wise recluses and brahmins?”
“Any bodily behaviour that is wholesome, great king.”
“Now, venerable Ānanda, what kind of bodily behaviour is wholesome?”
“Any bodily behaviour that is blameless, great king.”
“Now, venerable Ānanda, what kind of bodily behaviour is blameless?”
“Any bodily behaviour that does not bring affliction, great king.”
“Now, venerable Ānanda, what kind of bodily behaviour does not bring affliction?”
“Any bodily behaviour that has pleasant results, great king.”
“Now, venerable Ānanda, what kind of bodily behaviour has pleasant results?”
“Any bodily behaviour, great king, that does not lead to one’s own affliction, or to the affliction of others, or to the affliction of both, and on account of which unwholesome states diminish and wholesome states increase.
Such bodily behaviour, great king, is uncensured by wise recluses and brahmins.”


Proof that Sujato is wrong: (frankk comments)


Detailed in these two articles.

SN 55.7 The golden rule and silver rule

Proof: A-byāpāda is non ill will, not 'metta', as Theravāda Commentary claims


Anticipating Sujato's justification

He would probably argue that the silver rule is "pleasing",
to not overtly do an evil action by means of body, speech, mind,  (silver rule)
is also pleasing.

The problem is, Sujato translating  abyābajjho 
as "pleasing" (golden rule) instead of "not leading to affliction" (silver rule) slants the meaning.
In other words, someone reading his English translation is not going to assume the unusual interpretation of "pleasing" that he's adopting.

Similar to in the Suttas where they use the unusual definition of fourth jhāna and nirvana being "sukha" happy, 
is a special case, 
and not to be viewed as the usual rule.

In the technical sense, nirvana does not have sukha, dukkha, or any vedana at all.
4th jhāna does not have sukha vedana. 

So this translation needs to change, because we're talking about a very common,
important activity here; conduct of body, speech, mind needs to be non-evil, non-wrong (silver rule),
not an unusual situation where ambiguous unusual shades of meaning of a word "pleasing" could be seen as a silver rule.

People reading Sujato's translation will think one needs to be a boot licker, 
always having to "do something" to "please" someone,
rather than to simply "don't be a jerk, don't do something to someone you wouldn't them to do to you." (silver rule, as explicitly detailed in article linked above,  SN 55.7)

I believe Sujato commits this error in several other similar situations for other terms, 
for example translating abyāpāda ("non ill will", silver rule), as "love" .

Conclusion: gold and silver rules are distinct, not the same, not interchangeable







Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha...

Lucid24.org: What's new?

Link to lucid24.org home page :    4👑☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think 🔗📝notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

SN 48.40 Ven. Thanissaro comments on Ven. Sunyo's analysis

This was Ven. Sunyo's analysis of SN 48.40: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2024/05/exciting-news-honest-ebt-scholars-like.html And here is Ven. Thanissaro's response to that analysis: I think there’s a better way to tackle the issue of SN 48:40 than by appealing to the oldest layers of commentarial literature. That way is to point out that SN 48:40, as we have it, doesn’t pass the test in DN 16 for determining what’s genuine Dhamma and what’s not. There the standard is, not the authority of the person who’s claiming to report the Buddha’s teachings, but whether the teachings he’s reporting are actually in accordance with the principles of the Dhamma that you know. So the simple fact that those who have passed the Buddha’s teachings down to us say that a particular passage is what the Buddha actually taught is not sufficient grounds for accepting it. In the case of the jhānas—the point at issue here— we have to take as our guide the standard formula for the jhānas, a...