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Is this Mudita? Cases that fall in the cracks

 Example 1: someone performs an action that accords with skillful Dharma, but instead of being joyful, they experience much pain.


For example, someone finds a lost wallet with a lot of money, and instead of stealing it and keeping it for themself, they return the wallet to its owner. They experience no joy, but a lot of pain as a result of doing this.


The typical examples of Mudita, you experience joy when others are experiencing joy doing some action in accordance with skillful Dharma. 


In this example, is it Mudita you experience joy knowing they performed skillful Dharma, even though they feel pain in the moment, because you know in the future, they will experience joy as a result of following skillful Dharma principles?



Example 2: someone experiencing gladness at doing actions that are neither skillful nor unskillful Dharmas, just neutral


Vimutti magga, stipulates they need to be in accordance with skillful dharmas, and suttas AFAIK imply that and don't give any examples of experiencing mudita rejoicing for something that it unskillful, or neutral.
For example someone is talented singer and they enjoy singing. Do you rejoice simply because they have that talent?
How about Frank Sinatra, the famous singer, singing for some of his friends who are known mobsters?
Should you have mudita for someone with singing talent entertaining criminals? 




Forum discussion


interesting question on how you direct mudita to all beings (who would be unlikely to all be enjoying doing skillful actions at the same time)? 

Johann wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:33 am...
Guessing good householder reflects on the Kalama Sutta. Like in all Suttas the Sublime Buddha does not teach non-afflicted higher ways, but simply points out how Noble do. "There is the case where a Noble disciple..."

So then: How does, in which way of thinking, good householder develop mudita toward all and dwell there.


ariya savako = disciple of the noble ones, not 'noble disciple' (who has attained at least stream entry).
I believe the commentary claims stream entry (cite reference please?)
But I know of no sutta that says that.
http://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/20 ... sekha.html

To pervade all direction and all beings with mudita brahmavihara, it doesn't mean all beings have to be performing a skillful Dharma at the same moment. It just means you pervade that state of mind and radiate that energy in all directions.
I can instantly generate mudita contemplating the meaning and beauty in the Buddha's dharma, and pervade that energy in all directions or toward specific beings.

But I can't follow Vism. directions, watch a murderer who enjoys killing people, and then experience empathetic joy that the murderer is enjoying something evil. That wouldn't be the Buddha's definition of mudita anymore.





Comments

  1. MedOctober 7, 2022 at 5:03 PM

    I doubt Frank Sinatra was joyously singing watching the murderers thinking about how murderous they are... he was likely focused on the singing itself. Anyway, I think we must be able to practice mudita in any circumstance with selective ignorance. After all, we cannot control the external environment but must nurture the mind wherever we go positively and separately address people's behavioral problems when skillful.

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