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SN 46.55 5 hindrances illustrated with simile of bowl of reflective water

 

SN 46.55 Saṅgārava: With Saṅgārava

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    SN 46.55 - SN 46.55 Saṅgārava: With Saṅgārava
        SN 46.55.1 - (kāma-rāga: sensual desire ↔ color dyes)
        SN 46.55.2 - (byāpāda: ill will ↔ boiling water)
        SN 46.55.3 - (thina-middha: sloth and torpor ↔ moss and algae)
        SN 46.55.4 - (uddhacca-kukkucca: restlessness and remorse ↔ windblown agitated water)
        SN 46.55.5 - (vici-kiccha: skeptical doubt ↔ muddy cloudy water)
        SN 46.55.6 – (1. kāma-rāga: mind free of sensual desire)
        SN 46.55.7 – (2. byāpāda: mind free of ill will)
        SN 46.55.8 – (3. thina-middha: mind free of sloth and torpor)
        SN 46.55.9 – (4. uddhacca-kukkucca: mind free of restlessness and remorse)
        SN 46.55.10 – (5. vici-kiccha: mind free of skeptical doubt)
        SN 46.55.11 - (conclusion)



Sāvatthinidānaṃ.
At Sāvatthī.
Atha kho saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṃ sammodi.
Then Saṅgārava the brahmin went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him.
Sammodanīyaṃ kathaṃ sāraṇīyaṃ vītisāretvā ekamantaṃ nisīdi. Ekamantaṃ nisinno kho saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo bhagavantaṃ etadavoca:
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:
“Ko nu kho, bho gotama, hetu, ko paccayo yenekadā dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā?
“What is the cause, Master Gotama, what is the reason why sometimes even hymns that are long-practiced aren’t clear to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced?
Ko pana, bho gotama, hetu, ko paccayo yenekadā dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā”ti?
And why is it that sometimes even hymns that are long-unpracticed do recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced?”

46.55.1 - (kāma-rāga: sensual desire ↔ color dyes)

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“Yasmiṃ kho, brāhmaṇa, samaye kāmarāgapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati kāmarāgaparetena, uppannassa ca kāmarāgassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
“Brahmin, there’s a time when your heart is overcome and mired in sensual desire and you don’t truly understand the escape from sensual desire that has arisen. At that time you don’t truly know or see your own good, the good of another, or the good of both. Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.



Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto saṃsaṭṭho lākhāya vā haliddiyā vā nīliyā vā mañjiṭṭhāya vā. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ na jāneyya na passeyya.
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was mixed with dye such as red lac, turmeric, indigo, or rose madder. Even a person with good eyesight examining their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye kāmarāgapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati kāmarāgaparetena, uppannassa ca kāmarāgassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati … pe … paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in sensual desire … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.

46.55.2 - (byāpāda: ill will ↔ boiling water)

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Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye byāpādapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati byāpādaparetena, uppannassa ca byāpādassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is overcome and mired in ill will … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.



Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto agginā santatto pakkuthito usmudakajāto. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ na jāneyya na passeyya.
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was heated by fire, boiling and bubbling. Even a person with good eyesight examining their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye byāpādapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati byāpādaparetena, uppannassa ca byāpādassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi tasmiṃ samaye … pe … ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in ill will … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.

46.55.3 - (thina-middha: sloth and torpor ↔ moss and algae)

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Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye thinamiddhapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati thinamiddhaparetena, uppannassa ca thinamiddhassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is overcome and mired in dullness and drowsiness … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.



Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto sevālapaṇakapariyonaddho. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ na jāneyya na passeyya.
Suppose there was a bowl of water overgrown with moss and aquatic plants. Even a person with good eyesight examining their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye thinamiddhapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati thinamiddhaparetena, uppannassa ca thinamiddhassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in dullness and drowsiness … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.

46.55.4 - (uddhacca-kukkucca: restlessness and remorse ↔ windblown agitated water)

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Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye uddhaccakukkuccapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati uddhaccakukkuccaparetena, uppannassa ca uddhaccakukkuccassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is overcome and mired in restlessness and remorse … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.



Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto vāterito calito bhanto ūmijāto. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ na jāneyya na passeyya.
Suppose there was a bowl of water stirred by the wind, churning, swirling, and rippling. Even a person with good eyesight examining their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye uddhaccakukkuccapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati uddhaccakukkuccaparetena, uppannassa ca uddhaccakukkuccassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, when your heart is overcome and mired in restlessness and remorse … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.

46.55.5 - (vici-kiccha: skeptical doubt ↔ muddy cloudy water)

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Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye vicikicchāpariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati vicikicchāparetena, uppannāya ca vicikicchāya nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi … dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is overcome and mired in doubt … Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.



Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto āvilo luḷito kalalībhūto andhakāre nikkhitto. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ na jāneyya na passeyya.
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was cloudy, murky, and muddy, hidden in the darkness. Even a person with good eyesight examining their own reflection wouldn’t truly know it or see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye vicikicchāpariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati vicikicchāparetena, uppannāya ca vicikicchāya nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, paratthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati, ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ na jānāti na passati; dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, there’s a time when your heart is overcome and mired in doubt and you don’t truly understand the escape from doubt that has arisen. At that time you don’t truly know or see your own good, the good of another, or the good of both. Even hymns that are long-practiced don’t recur to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.
Ayaṃ kho, brāhmaṇa, hetu ayaṃ paccayo yenekadā dīgharattaṃ sajjhāyakatāpi mantā nappaṭibhanti, pageva asajjhāyakatā.
This is the cause, brahmin, this is the reason why sometimes even hymns that are long-practiced aren’t clear to the mind, let alone those that are not practiced.

46.55.6 – (1. kāma-rāga: mind free of sensual desire)

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Yasmiñca kho, brāhmaṇa, samaye na kāmarāgapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na kāmarāgaparetena, uppannassa ca kāmarāgassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati; dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
There’s a time when your heart is not overcome and mired in sensual desire and you truly understand the escape from sensual desire that has arisen. At that time you truly know and see your own good, the good of another, and the good of both. Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.



Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto asaṃsaṭṭho lākhāya vā haliddiyā vā nīliyā vā mañjiṭṭhāya vā. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ jāneyya passeyya.
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was not mixed with dye such as red lac, turmeric, indigo, or rose madder. A person with good eyesight examining their own reflection would truly know it and see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na kāmarāgapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na kāmarāgaparetena, uppannassa ca kāmarāgassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti … pe ….
In the same way, when your heart is not overcome and mired in sensual desire … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.

46.55.7 – (2. byāpāda: mind free of ill will)

Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na byāpādapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na byāpādaparetena, uppannassa ca byāpādassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi … pe … dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is not overcome and mired in ill will … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.
Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto na agginā santatto na pakkuthito na usmudakajāto, tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ jāneyya passeyya.
Suppose there is a bowl of water that is not heated by a fire, boiling and bubbling. A person with good eyesight examining their own reflection would truly know it and see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na byāpādapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na byāpādaparetena, uppannassa ca byāpādassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi … pe … dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, when your heart is not overcome and mired in ill will … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.

46.55.8 – (3. thina-middha: mind free of sloth and torpor)

Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na thinamiddhapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na thinamiddhaparetena, uppannassa ca thinamiddhassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi … pe … dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is not overcome and mired in dullness and drowsiness … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.
Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto na sevālapaṇakapariyonaddho. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ jāneyya passeyya.
Suppose there is a bowl of water that is not overgrown with moss and aquatic plants. A person with good eyesight examining their own reflection would truly know it and see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na thinamiddhapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na thinamiddhaparetena, uppannassa ca thinamiddhassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi … pe … dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, when your heart is not overcome and mired in dullness and drowsiness … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.

46.55.9 – (4. uddhacca-kukkucca: mind free of restlessness and remorse)

Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na uddhaccakukkuccapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na uddhaccakukkuccaparetena, uppannassa ca uddhaccakukkuccassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi … pe … dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is not overcome and mired in restlessness and remorse … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.
Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto na vāterito na calito na bhanto na ūmijāto. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ jāneyya passeyya.
Suppose there is a bowl of water that is not stirred by the wind, churning, swirling, and rippling. A person with good eyesight examining their own reflection would truly know it and see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na uddhaccakukkuccapariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na uddhaccakukkuccaparetena, uppannassa ca uddhaccakukkuccassa nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi … pe … ubhayatthampi … pe … dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, when your heart is not overcome and mired in restlessness and remorse … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.

46.55.10 – (5. vici-kiccha: mind free of skeptical doubt)

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Puna caparaṃ, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na vicikicchāpariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na vicikicchāparetena, uppannāya ca vicikicchāya nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati; ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati; dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
Furthermore, when your heart is not overcome and mired in doubt … Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.



Seyyathāpi, brāhmaṇa, udapatto accho vippasanno anāvilo āloke nikkhitto. Tattha cakkhumā puriso sakaṃ mukhanimittaṃ paccavekkhamāno yathābhūtaṃ jāneyya passeyya.
Suppose there was a bowl of water that was transparent, clear, and unclouded, brought into the light. A person with good eyesight examining their own reflection would truly know it and see it.
Evameva kho, brāhmaṇa, yasmiṃ samaye na vicikicchāpariyuṭṭhitena cetasā viharati na vicikicchāparetena, uppannāya ca vicikicchāya nissaraṇaṃ yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti, attatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, paratthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati, ubhayatthampi tasmiṃ samaye yathābhūtaṃ jānāti passati; dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
In the same way, there’s a time when your heart is not overcome and mired in doubt and you truly understand the escape from doubt that has arisen. At that time you truly know and see your own good, the good of another, and the good of both. Even hymns that are long-unpracticed recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.

46.55.11 - (conclusion)

Ayaṃ kho, brāhmaṇa, hetu ayaṃ paccayo yenekadā dīgharattaṃ asajjhāyakatāpi mantā paṭibhanti, pageva sajjhāyakatā.
This is the cause, brahmin, this is the reason why sometimes even hymns that are long-unpracticed do recur to the mind, let alone those that are practiced.
Sattime, brāhmaṇa, bojjhaṅgā anāvaraṇā anīvaraṇā cetaso anupakkilesā bhāvitā bahulīkatā vijjāvimuttiphalasacchikiriyāya saṃvattanti.
These seven awakening factors are not obstacles, hindrances, or corruptions of the mind. When developed and cultivated they lead to the realization of the fruit of knowledge and freedom.
Katame satta?
What seven?
Satisambojjhaṅgo kho, brāhmaṇa, anāvaraṇo anīvaraṇo cetaso anupakkileso bhāvito bahulīkato vijjāvimuttiphalasacchikiriyāya saṃvattati … pe … upekkhāsambojjhaṅgo kho, brāhmaṇa, anāvaraṇo anīvaraṇo cetaso anupakkileso bhāvito bahulīkato vijjāvimuttiphalasacchikiriyāya saṃvattati.
The awakening factors of rememberfulness, investigation of dharmas, energy, rapture, pacification, undistractible-lucidity, and equanimous-observation.
Ime kho, brāhmaṇa, satta bojjhaṅgā anāvaraṇā anīvaraṇā cetaso anupakkilesā bhāvitā bahulīkatā vijjāvimuttiphalasacchikiriyāya saṃvattantī”ti.
These seven awakening factors are not obstacles, hindrances, or corruptions of the mind. When developed and cultivated they lead to the realization of the fruit of knowledge and freedom.”
Evaṃ vutte, saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo bhagavantaṃ etadavoca:
When he said this, Saṅgārava said to the Buddha:
“abhikkantaṃ, bho gotama … pe …
“Excellent, Master Gotama! …
upāsakaṃ maṃ bhavaṃ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṃ saraṇaṃ gatan”ti.
From this day forth, may Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

(end of sutta⏹️)


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Link to lucid24.org home page :    4👑☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think 🔗📝notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paṭhamampāhaṁ,   bhikkhave,   jhānaṁ   nissāya   āsavānaṁ   khayaṁ   vadāmī’ti,   iti   kho   panetaṁ   vuttaṁ. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Kiñcetaṁ   paṭicca   vuttaṁ? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...

Pāḷi and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

  'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...