SN 41.8 non Buddhist doing 1st jhana, MN 36 Buddha as a boy (was non Buddhist) doing first jhana

 Yesterday, I wrote:

KN Snp 5.1 non Buddhist doing jhana, with 5 hindrances present (while in jhana)

It reminded me of other cases of non Buddhists doing first jhana:

SN 41.8 Jain founder doesn’t believe 2nd jhana is possible

🔗SN 41.8 detailed analysis

Most people miss the implication, that if Nigantha believes 2nd jhana and higher is impossible because he believes it's impossible for people to stop thinking for prolonged periods, 

then it means he doesn't doubt that people can do first jhana (which does have thinking involved). More likely, being renunciants and undertaking many austere practices full time and enjoying some of them, he and many of his followers along with other contemporary non Buddhists renunciants are very likely to be proficient in first jhana levels of samadhi themselves. 

Buddha as a boy discovering first jhana by accident, was non-Buddhist at the time

https://lucid24.org/mn/mn036/index.html#flink-13

(recall first jhāna experience as boy)

Tassa mayhaṃ, aggivessana, etadahosi:	Then I thought:
‘ye kho keci atītamaddhānaṃ samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayiṃsu, etāvaparamaṃ, nayito bhiyyo.	‘Whatever ascetics and brahmins have experienced painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to overexertion—whether in the past, future, or present—this is as far as it goes, no-one has done more than this.
Yepi hi keci anāgatamaddhānaṃ samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayissanti, etāvaparamaṃ, nayito bhiyyo.
Yepi hi keci etarahi samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti, etāvaparamaṃ, nayito bhiyyo.
Na kho panāhaṃ imāya kaṭukāya dukkarakārikāya adhigacchāmi uttari manussadhammā alamariyañāṇadassanavisesaṃ.	But I have not achieved any superhuman distinction in knowledge and vision worthy of the noble ones by this severe, grueling work.
Siyā nu kho añño maggo bodhāyā’ti?	Could there be another path to awakening?’
Tassa mayhaṃ, aggivessana, etadahosi:	Then it occurred to me:
‘abhijānāmi kho panāhaṃ pitu sakkassa kammante sītāya jambucchāyāya nisinno vivicceva kāmehi vivicca akusalehi dhammehi savitakkaṃ savicāraṃ vivekajaṃ pītisukhaṃ paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharitā.	‘I recall sitting in the cool shade of the rose-apple tree while my father the Sakyan was off working. Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, I entered and remained in the first jhāna, which has the rapture and pleasure born of seclusion, while directing-thought and evaluation.
Siyā nu kho eso maggo bodhāyā’ti?	Could that be the path to awakening?’
Tassa mayhaṃ, aggivessana, satānusāri viññāṇaṃ ahosi:	Stemming from that memory came the realization:
‘eseva maggo bodhāyā’ti.	‘That is the path to awakening!’
Tassa mayhaṃ, aggivessana, etadahosi:	Then it occurred to me:
‘kiṃ nu kho ahaṃ tassa sukhassa bhāyāmi, yaṃ taṃ sukhaṃ aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehī’ti?	‘Why am I afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities?’
Tassa mayhaṃ, aggivessana, etadahosi:	Then I thought:
‘na kho ahaṃ tassa sukhassa bhāyāmi, yaṃ taṃ sukhaṃ aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehī’ti.	‘I’m not afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities.’

Does the Buddha's description of the salient quality of first jhana sound anything like Visuddhimagga and Ajahn Brahm's description?

Tassa mayhaṃ, aggivessana, etadahosi:	Then I thought:
‘na kho ahaṃ tassa sukhassa bhāyāmi, yaṃ taṃ sukhaṃ aññatreva kāmehi aññatra akusalehi dhammehī’ti.	‘I’m not afraid of that pleasure, for it has nothing to do with sensual pleasures or unskillful qualities.’

According to Vism. and Ajahn Brahm, their description of their redefined "first jhana" does not contradict the suttas. 

Yet, we find nothing in the standard first jhana formula, contained in the passage here with the Buddha as a boy discovering first jhana by accident, while his farther was away working. In other words, if the accidental discovery of first jhana is using exactly the same formulation of samma samadhi's first jhana formula, it means those terms are every day common words known to Buddhists and non Buddhists alike. Vitakka and vicara are thinking, body is a physical body, etc. No special dictionary we have to suddenly swap in here. 

The highlighted portion above indicates the outstanding part of the jhana experience he noticed, that this kind of pleasure that hit him had nothing to do with five cords of sensual pleasures, therefore there was nothing to fear. 

If he had been doing a Vism. or Ajahn Brahm redefintion of "Jhana", you would expect him to say something more along the lines of:

"Wow! I suddenly dropped into a state of absorption where I could not hear sounds, my body disappeared, I could not feel any mosquito bites, I could not think, I could not even exercise any will, I was sucked into a vortex of frozen stupor and emerged some time later to notice there was a pleasure unconnected with sensual pleasures that just came out of nowhere. 

But that's not what the Buddha said. Nothing even close to that. When he does talk about escaping the dukkha from the afflictions of sensory contact like heat and mosquitoes, it's in the formless attainments 

See the passages that gloss the terms in the standard formula for proof:

 s5👻 ākāsā-nañcā-(a)yatanaṃ: if you study the terms in the space infinitude dimension formula for patigha sañña and nanatta sañña, it's clear that it must mean in the four jhānas one is sensitive to the physical anatomical body, i.e. not in a formless samādhi.