Abhidhamma and Vism. apologists will go to any lengths to redefine kāya and rūpa as "body of mental factors devoid of 4 elements" and "visual image of 4 elements but not the 4 elements themselves"

Re: Sallatha Sutta SN 36.6 - The Arrow (or dart, thorn)

Post by frank k » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:38 am

And where is the sutta basis for that?
Kaya, especially when contrasted in a passage against mano, citta, cetasika, nama, etc., in the suttas always means kaya is the physical body that can experience physical pain.
The simile should give you a pretty good idea too.
You're getting shot by a physical rupa kaya arrow that causes rupa kaya based pain.
You're not being shot with a "body of mental factors" of memory, imaginary mental visualization of what it would feel like to be shot with an arrow.
That would be a stupid simile to make if the Buddha really just wanted to say a mental pain can be followed by more mental pains.

mikenz66 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:41 am
Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:08 amIt’s not “physical feelings and mental feelings”. It’s more “experiential feelings” (kayika vedana) and “emotional reaction/feeling” (cetasika vedana). There are 6 senses in the Dhamma, not 5.
...
Great observation!

Mike

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