Skip to main content

suicide in SN 4.23 in connection to MN 125 agama parallel MA 198 調御地經, and related suttas on khanti, khamo

 Got an interesting blog comment question from many months ago that I didn't notice until just now. 

This comes from blog post:

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2020/09/mn-125-agama-parallel-ma-198-has-some.html


2 comments:

  1. Hello Frank.
    How to reconciliate this sutta with SN 4.23?

    "Now at that time Venerable Godhika was staying on the slopes of Isigili at the Black Rock. Then Venerable Godhika, meditating diligent, keen, and resolute, experienced temporary freedom of heart. But then he fell away from that temporary freedom of heart. For a second … third … fourth … fifth … sixth time Godhika experienced temporary freedom of heart. But for a sixth time he fell away from it. For a seventh time Godhika, meditating diligent, keen, and resolute, experienced temporary freedom of heart.

    Then he thought, “I’ve fallen away from this temporary freedom of heart no less than six times. Why don’t I slit my wrists?”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The suicide in SN 22.87 for example, was due to the monk having debilitating pain in some kind of terminal health condition. In SN 4.23 The sutta doesn't explain in detail the reasons and motivation, so we can only guess. My guess is Godhika had a bad enough physical health condition (that would be the only reason for an arahant who can do ceto vimutti to not be able to do it) that perhaps there was also severe enough chronic pain to warrant suicide. That's just a guess. But even if there was no chronic pain, the point of that sutta is for an arahant it's blameless whether they choose to endure (khanti, khamo) the pain or not. So either way, not a contradiction with MN 125 and those related suttas on khanti.

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Advice to younger meditators on jhāna, sex, porn, masturbation

Someone asked: Is porn considered harmful sexual.activity? I don't have a sex life because I don't have a partner and I don't wish to engage in casual sex so I use porn to quench the biological urge to orgasm. I can't see that's it's harmful because nobody is being forced into it. The actors are all paid well and claim to enjoy it etc. The only harm I can see is that it's so accessible these days on smart devices and so children may access it but I believe that this is the parents responsibility to not allow unsupervised use of devices etc. Views? Frankk response: In another thread, you asked about pleasant sensations and jhāna.  I'm guessing you're young, so here's some important advice you won't get from suttas   if you're serious about jhāna.  (since monastics are already celibate by rule)   If you want to attain stable and higher jhānas,   celibacy and noble silence to the best of your ability are the feedstock and prerequiste to tha

illustration of Buddha Gotoma where he looks like a human being

Illustration by Bhikkhu Vimalo from a BPS postcard wishing a happy vesak   More images where Buddha looks human: https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2021/02/where-are-buddha-images-and-statues.html Buddha and Arahant images that look like real humans

1min. video: Dalai Lama kissing boy and asking him to suck his tongue

To give more context, this is a public event,  * everyone knows cameras are rolling  *  it's a room full of children * the boy's mom is standing off camera a few feet away watching all of this * the boy initiated contact, he had already had a hug with Dalai Lama earlier and then asked Dalai Lama for another hug which triggered this segment  17 min. video showing what happened before that 1 min. clip and after, with some explanation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT0qey5Ts78 16min talk from Ajahn Acalo with his thoughts on Dalai Lama kissing boy, relevance to Bhikkhu monastic code, sexual predators in religion in general, and how celibate monastics deal with sexual energy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2m0TcUib0 The child's comments about the incident in a filmed interview later https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/04/18/643eba5d46163ffc078b457c.html The child: It's a great experience It was amazing to meet His Holiness and I think it's a great ex