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SN 36.11 M.Olds critiques B. Sujato's translation of vitakka and vicara in 4 jhanas and 9 samadhi attainments

SN 36.11 M.Olds critiques B. Sujato's translation of vitakka and vicara in 4 jhanas and 9 samadhi attainments

excerpt from his blog: 
 http://buddhadust.net/dhammatalk/dhammatalk_forum/whats.new.htm#O.6.04.20


Oblog: [O.6.04.20] Thursday, June 04, 2020 5:50 AM

Three sensations are spoken of by the Sammā SamBuddha:
[1] pleasant sensation,
[2] painful sensation,
[3] not-painful-but-not-pleasant sensation.

But then this was also said by the Sammā SamBuddha:

"Whatsoever is experienced, that is simply pain."

Before you look at the sutta, see if you can reconcile the two statements.

 

 

[SN 4.36.11] Being Alone, The M. Olds, translation.
Linked to the Pali, the Warren translation, the Woodward translation, the Nyanaponika Thera translation, the Bhikkhu Thanissaro translation and the Bhikkhu Bodhi translation.
The Buddha explains in detail the meaning of the statement that all that which is experienced is joined with pain.

Here is a sutta which speaks of a gradual, step-wise progression to Arahantship focused on the gradual reduction and final elimination of own-making (sankhāra). It also shows that all four jhānas and the arupa attainments are possible to get in a partial (reduced) state and temporarily.

Seeing this I was curious as to how Bhk. Sujato handled his translation of vitakka and vicara ("placing of the mind and keeping it connected") which is not a thing particularly suited to being done partially (in a reduced form) or to being pacified.

I continue to wonder why one would go to all the trouble of placing the mind in the first jhāna and then having to get rid of it again for the second jhāna. Such a back-and-forth is not a characteristic of Gotama's style (he prefers "round and round").

Further, a characteristic that is Gotama's style is the explanation of terms he uses when doubt is possible: nowhere in the suttas is there an explanation of why what is in every other context clearly properly translated "thinking and pondering" (or some such idea related to thinking) is suddenly to be understood in a completely different way just for the jhānas.

I also wonder what happened to the thinking and wandering thoughts that one had while still engaged in the unskillful, just prior to entering the first jhāna.

Bhk. Sujato is an intelligent man, he is aware that he is wrong here but stubbornly refuses to admit he can make a mistake. He does not see that he is playing a role that supports a (probably brahmin) conspiracy or Buddhaghosa's ignorance (hardly likely when we learn that he burned the originals of the commentaries he was "copying" — Buddhaghosuppatti, Pali Text Society, Oxford, 2001, pg 7 and 29) which makes attaining the jhānas impossible (Ok, they say 1 in a million may attain the jhānas, whereas in the suttas the jhānas are to be attained 'easily and without trouble' by ordinary folk including laymen).

Bhk. Sujato also is maintaining a hypocritical stance in that while he advocates following only the Early Buddhist Texts, in this case he is following commentary only. There is no sutta support for his position.

There is another inconsistancy in Bhk. Sujato's translation here of sankhāra as "conditions" where he has elsewhere vigorously defended his translation as 'choices'. It is clear why he has changed his translation here; 'choices' just simply does not work.

Does he think nobody is watching? That there is no consequence for misrepresenting what the Buddha taught? Especially in such a way as to preclude the attaining of Sammā Samādhi (which he also insists is a prerequisite to attainment of Arahantship).

I have provided the Bhk. Sujato translation for those who would like to check this out for themselves.

(end of M. Olds article)



Related: 



SN 36.11, MN 44 B. Sujato, as of august 2019 still refuses to correct his misinterpretation and mistranslation of vitakka & vicara

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2019/08/sn-3611-mn-44-b-sujato-as-of-august.html


SN 36.11 Buddha goes out of his way to emphasize physicality of 4 jhanas, 🌊 passaddhi/pacification

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2019/04/sn-3611-buddha-goes-out-of-his-way-to.html


SN 36.11 speaking in first jhāna, acccording to B.Analayo is 'impossible'

https://notesonthedhamma.blogspot.com/2019/03/sn-3611-speaking-in-first-jhana.html



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