How Vism. differentiates between the rupa in their 4 redefined jhānas, and the arupa attainments

ArkaJanuary 19, 2020 at 11:45 AM

@Frank In the Vism. system, how are formless jhanas differentiated from the 4 jhanas ? Because as far as I know there is only awareness of the light as an object.

my response:

In this detailed audit, if you compare the vimutti-magga and visuddhi-magga (see the respective section on each) on how they handle the base of infinite space, you'll see how vimt. is EBT compliant, in differentiating 1st arupa infinite space and the four jhanas, whereas Vism. is a corrupted abomination, and their rationalization for it is one of the stupidest excuses you'll ever have the chance to witness.

http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/ebt-vs-vism/index.html


In Vism., it's not just visual light perception, you can use most of the 10 kasinas to attain infinite space. The difference between VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana) 1st jhana, and infinite space, using earth kasina as an example, is that for infinite space you would stretch out the earth kasina gradually making it larger and larger, and then eventually remove the kasina and just switch your perception to the infinite space.  But prior to that, VRJ first jhana earth kasina, and infinite space earth kasina, both have 5 senses shut off and are exactly the same. You can't hear sounds, can't feel mosquito bites, can  not tell where your hands, fingers, toes are, your body perception is gone.

Whereas in Vimt., which uses an earlier less corrupted version of Abhdhamma, and in the EBT, the four jhanas you do perceive your body, can hear sounds, can feel mosquito bites.

Here's an EBT analysis of how the rupa (that can feel mosquito bites) is glossed in the passages relevant to base of infinite space
http://lucid24.org/sted/8aam/8samadhi/smd5/index.html

In EBT and Vimt., rupa in four jhanas refers to your physical body.

In Vism's VRJ four jhanas,  rupa means the 'mind created visual earth kasina', for how could rupa refer to a physical body that is beyond one's perception in first jhana?
(I'm paraphrasing, but it really is as stupid as it sounds, and blind faith followers of late Theravada accept it without question).

follow up question

ArkaJanuary 23, 2020 at 8:54 AM

Thanks for clearing that up, but my point kind of was Ajahn Brahm says when the nimitta absorbs you , there is no more "willing", there is just the light, then how can he tell whether he is in first jhana or the second jhana or the formless ones? This seems contradictory.

Yes, that's another big thing VRJ (vism. redefinition of jhana) and Ajahn brahm adds to 'jhana'. That one can not will/intend, examine, understand, while in that frozen state. Only after one has emerged from this frozen state can one examine and reflect on what happened.

In EBT, you can do all of that type of examination. That's exactly what sati, sampajano, and upekkha do in the 3rd and 4th jhana. This is why Vism. also created a '5 jhana factors' model, that eliminates upekkha, and redefines vitakka and vicara into a non thinking action. 

I like what B. Gunaratana said. If you're in a frozen state when you can't do any kind of examination, don't even know whether you're in a jhana, that's called 'wrong samadhi.'