Where in 7 books of Abhidhamma is vitakka ever defined and understood as "initial application" or "placing the mind"?
Attention Abhidhamma experts, where in Abhdhamma is vitakka ever defined as "initial application"?
the definition that occurs frequently in books 1 and 2 of Ab are:
which is the same as MN 117 def. of samma sankappo
but so far I've only see in the vism. under earth kasina first jhana, where vitakka is redefined as 'initial application' . Everywhere else I've seen so far, like above, vitakka is not 'initial application', but 'thinking'. The 'initial application' you could say is 'cetaso abhiniropana' (that is only operative in vism. redefinition of first jhana). And they are a subset of vitakka, not equivalent to vitakka.
So the passage quoted above, which some English translate vitakka as "initial application", like so:
Doing a pali string search within 7 books of abhidhamma produces too many results to look at them all, but it looks like they're all just repeats of
Abhi Dhs, 1. cittuppādakaṇḍaṃ, kāmāvacarakusalaṃ, padabhājanī, para. 7 ⇒
7. katamo tasmiṃ samaye vitakko hoti? yo tasmiṃ samaye takko vitakko saṅkappo appanā byappanā cetaso abhiniropanā sammāsaṅkappo — ayaṃ tasmiṃ samaye vitakko hoti.
which is the same as MN 117 def. of samma sankappo
but so far I've only see in the vism. under earth kasina first jhana, where vitakka is redefined as 'initial application' . Everywhere else I've seen so far, like above, vitakka is not 'initial application', but 'thinking'. The 'initial application' you could say is 'cetaso abhiniropana' (that is only operative in vism. redefinition of first jhana). And they are a subset of vitakka, not equivalent to vitakka.
So the passage quoted above, which some English translate vitakka as "initial application", like so:
Tattha katamo vitakko? Yo takko vitakko saṅkappo appanā byappanā cetaso abhiniropanā sammāsaṅkappo—ayaṃ vuccati “vitakko”.Is completely wrong. It should be translated:
Therein what is
initial application? That which is mentation, thinking, thought, fixation, focussing, application of the mind, right thought. This is called initial application.
Tattha katamo vitakko? Yo takko vitakko saṅkappo appanā byappanā cetaso abhiniropanā sammāsaṅkappo—ayaṃ vuccati “vitakko”.The abhiniropana is what Vism. earth kasina first jhana uses to say that vitakka/thought INCLUDES "directing the mind" (initial application) and then striking at thrashing at the object. In other words, this specialized use of vitakka is ONLY WITHIN Vism.'s REDEFINITION of first jhana. And 'initial application' is a subset of vitakka/thought, not the other way around. Thought and thinking is not a subset of 'initial application'.
Therein what is
thought? That which is mentation, thinking, thought, fixation, focussing, application of the mind, right thought. This is called initial application.
Doing a pali string search within 7 books of abhidhamma produces too many results to look at them all, but it looks like they're all just repeats of
Abhi Dhs, 1. cittuppādakaṇḍaṃ, kāmāvacarakusalaṃ, padabhājanī, para. 7 ⇒Can some Abhdhamma experts confirm this is the case?
7. katamo tasmiṃ samaye vitakko hoti? yo tasmiṃ samaye takko vitakko saṅkappo appanā byappanā cetaso abhiniropanā sammāsaṅkappo — ayaṃ tasmiṃ samaye vitakko hoti.
Re: Attention Abhidhamma experts, where in Abhdhamma is vitakka ever defined as "initial application"?
From Nina Van Gorkom's book on cetasikas:
Visuddhimagga ( IV,88) defines vitakka as follows:
... Herein, applied thinking (vitakkama) is applied thought (vitakka); hitting upon, is what is meant. It has the characteristic of directing the mind onto an object (mounting the mind on its object). Its function is to strike at and thresh- for the mediator (2 The Visuddhimagga deals with vitakka in the section on samatha. The meditator is someone who cultivates samatha.) is said, in virtue of it, to have the object touched and struck at by applied thought. It is manifested as the leading of the mind onto an object...
The Atthasalini (Book I, Part IV, Chapter I, 114) gives a similar definition. This commentary uses a simile of someone who wants to "ascend" the king's palace and depends on a relative or friend dear to the king to achieve this. In the same way the citta which is accompanied by vitakka depends on the latter in order to "ascend" to the object, to be directed to the object. Vitakka leads the citta to the object so that citta can cognize it.
Visuddhimagga ( IV,88) defines vitakka as follows:
... Herein, applied thinking (vitakkama) is applied thought (vitakka); hitting upon, is what is meant. It has the characteristic of directing the mind onto an object (mounting the mind on its object). Its function is to strike at and thresh- for the mediator (2 The Visuddhimagga deals with vitakka in the section on samatha. The meditator is someone who cultivates samatha.) is said, in virtue of it, to have the object touched and struck at by applied thought. It is manifested as the leading of the mind onto an object...
The Atthasalini (Book I, Part IV, Chapter I, 114) gives a similar definition. This commentary uses a simile of someone who wants to "ascend" the king's palace and depends on a relative or friend dear to the king to achieve this. In the same way the citta which is accompanied by vitakka depends on the latter in order to "ascend" to the object, to be directed to the object. Vitakka leads the citta to the object so that citta can cognize it.
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