Skip to main content

Sariputta was a liar (jhāna, kāya, sukha contradictions in Theravada history)

Sariputta was a liar.

At least that's the conclusion one would have to draw, if we believe what he said in the pali suttas was accurate, and we also believe the Theravada account that Abhidhamma was taught by the Buddha to Sariputta, and that Sariputta taught Abhidhamma to his 500 disciples which was the same teaching as we have today.


Sariputta in the EBT pali sutta

(these 5 things not present in pīti/rapture)
(1. Kāma’s dukkha & domanassa)
(2. Kāma’s sukha & somanassa)
(3. A-kusala dukkha & domanassa)
(4. A-kusala sukha & somanassa)
(5. Kusala dukkha & domanassa)
Mp (Te Cmy) says this pīti is from first and second jhāna
Yasmiṃ, bhante, samaye ariyasāvako pavivekaṃ pītiṃ upasampajja viharati,
At a time when a noble disciple enters and dwells in the rapture of seclusion,
pañcassa ṭhānāni tasmiṃ samaye na honti.
five things aren’t present in him.
1) Yampissa kāmūpasaṃhitaṃ dukkhaṃ domanassaṃ,
1) The pain and sadness connected with sensual pleasures.
tampissa tasmiṃ samaye na hoti.
at this time (they are) not present.
2) Yampissa kāmūpasaṃhitaṃ sukhaṃ somanassaṃ,
2) The pleasure and happiness connected with sensual pleasures.
tampissa tasmiṃ samaye na hoti.
at this time (they are) not present.
3) Yampissa akusalūpasaṃhitaṃ dukkhaṃ domanassaṃ,
3) The pain and sadness connected with the unskillful.
tampissa tasmiṃ samaye na hoti.
at this time (they are) not present.
4) Yampissa akusalūpasaṃhitaṃ sukhaṃ somanassaṃ,
4) The pleasure and happiness connected with the unskillful.
tampissa tasmiṃ samaye na hoti.
at this time (they are) not present.
5) Yampissa kusalūpasaṃhitaṃ dukkhaṃ domanassaṃ,
5) The pain and sadness connected with the skillful.
tampissa tasmiṃ samaye na hoti.
at this time (they are) not present.

(commentary to AN 5.176 confirms that Sariputta is talking about first two jhanas)

Aṅguttara Nikāya, pañcakanipāta-aṭṭhakathā, 4. catutthapaṇṇāsakaṃ, (18) 3. upāsakavaggo, 6. pītisuttavaṇṇanā

♦ 176. chaṭṭhe kinti mayanti kena nāma upāyena mayaṃ. pavivekaṃ pītinti paṭhamadutiyajjhānāni nissāya uppajjanakapītiṃ. kāmūpasaṃhitanti kāmanissitaṃ duvidhe kāme ārabbha uppajjanakaṃ. akusalūpasaṃhitanti “migasūkarādayo vijjhissāmī”ti saraṃ khipitvā tasmiṃ viraddhe “viraddhaṃ mayā”ti evaṃ akusale nissāya uppajjanakaṃ. tādisesu pana ṭhānesu avirajjhantassa “suṭṭhu me viddhaṃ, suṭṭhu me pahaṭan”ti uppajjanakaṃ akusalūpasaṃhitaṃ sukhaṃ somanassaṃ nāma. dānādiupakaraṇānaṃ asampattiyā uppajjamānaṃ pana kusalūpasaṃhitaṃ dukkhaṃ domanassanti veditabbaṃ.


In Pali EBT, sukha and dukkha (when contrasted with so-manassa and do-manassa) are definitely physical

(all of these hyperlinks jump to pali+english sutta text)

SN 36.14 agāra-suttaṃ
excerpt:
evameva kho, bhikkhave,
just like that, monks,
imasmiṃ kāyasmiṃ vividhā vedanā uppajjanti.
(in) this body, various feelings arise.
sukhāpi vedanā uppajjati,
pleasant feeling arises,
dukkhāpi vedanā uppajjati,
painful feeling arises,
a-dukkham-a-sukhāpi vedanā uppajjati.
neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises;

(carnal feelings are tied to 5 cords of sensual pleasure, clearly anatomical body)

sāmisāpi sukhā vedanā uppajjati,
carnal pleasant feeling arises;
sāmisāpi dukkhā vedanā uppajjati,
carnal painful feeling arises;
sāmisāpi a-dukkham-a-sukhā vedanā uppajjati.
carnal neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises;

(anatomical body originated spiritual feelings arise in jhāna, see SN 36.31 for explicit tie to jhāna definition)

nirāmisāpi sukhā vedanā uppajjati,
spiritual pleasant feeling arises;
nirāmisāpi dukkhā vedanā uppajjati,
spiritual painful feeling arises;
nirāmisāpi a-dukkham-a-sukhā vedanā uppajjatī”ti.
spiritual neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises.

Sariputta in Abhidhamma

Now read what Sariputta says in book 2 of 7 of Abhidhamma canon, in Vibhanga (analaysis of) chapter 12 on jhana.
look at how sukha is physical in 4th jhana, but then sukha in 3rd jhana is pure mental. 3rd jhana defines kāya (body) as purely mental, but then compare to what sariputta said in AN 5.176, where sukha was physical.

Te Ab Vb 12 Jhāna

(click the links above to jump to the scripture text in pali+english)

Conclusion

Either Sariputta was a liar, or schizophrenic or demented,

OR

Later Theravada tradition was crooked and cooked the books, went back and altered the canonical Abhidhamma to suit their agenda of redefining jhāna into something completely different than the 4 jhāna samadhis of pali EBT.

Which option is more plausible?




Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Lucid24.org: What's new?

Link to lucid24.org home page :    4👑☸   Remember, you may have to click the refresh button on your web browser navigation bar at to get updated website. 2024 9-17 Lots of new stuff in the last 2 and a half years.  Too many to list. Main one justifying new blog entry, is redesign of home page. Before, it was designed to please me, super dense with everything in one master control panel. I've redesigned it to be friendly to newbies and everyone really. Clear structure, more use of space.  At someone's request, I added a lucid24.org google site search at top of home page. 2022 4-14 Major update to lucid24.org, easy navigation of suttas, quicklink: the ramifications 4-2 new feature lucid24.org sutta quick link 3-28 A new translation of SN 38.16, and first jhāna is a lot easier than you think 🔗📝notes related to Jhāna force and J.A.S.I. effect AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here? 3-13 Added to EBPedia J.A.S.I. ('Jazzy...

AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111: How does Ajahn Brahm and Sujato's "Jhāna" work here?

What these 3 suttas have in common, AN 9.36, MN 64, MN 111, is the very interesting feature of explicitly describing doing vipassana, while one is in the jhāna and the first 3 formless attainments. LBT (late buddhist text) apologists, as well as Sujato, Brahm, claim that the suttas describe a jhāna where one enters a disembodied, frozen state, where vipassana is impossible until one emerges from that 'jhāna'.  Since Sujato translated all the suttas, let's take a look at what he translated, and how it supports his interpretation of 'jhāna'.  AN 9.36: Jhānasutta—Bhikkhu Sujato (suttacentral.net) ‘The first absorption is a basis for ending the defilements.’ ‘Paṭhamampāhaṁ,   bhikkhave,   jhānaṁ   nissāya   āsavānaṁ   khayaṁ   vadāmī’ti,   iti   kho   panetaṁ   vuttaṁ. That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Kiñcetaṁ   paṭicca   vuttaṁ? Take a mendicant who, q uite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskill...

Pāḷi and Sanskrit definition of Viveka

  'Viveka', Sanskrit dictionary Primary meaning is ‘discrimination’. Other meanings:  (1) true knowledge,  (2) discretion,  (3) right judgement,  (4) the faculty of distinguishing and classifying things according to their real properties’. Wikipedia (sanskrit dictionary entry 'viveka') Viveka (Sanskrit: विवेक, romanized: viveka) is a Sanskrit and Pali term translated into English as discernment or discrimination.[1] According to Rao and Paranjpe, viveka can be explained more fully as: Sense of discrimination; wisdom; discrimination between the real and the unreal, between the self and the non-self, between the permanent and the impermanent; discriminative inquiry; right intuitive discrimination; ever present discrimination between the transient and the permanent.[2]: 348  The Vivekachudamani is an eighth-century Sanskrit poem in dialogue form that addresses the development of viveka. Within the Vedanta tradition, there is also a concept of vichara which is one t...