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When's the last time you read a sutta that compared a "noble disciple" to an "un-noble disciple"?

2 – ariya-savaka: noble one’s disciple

ariya-savaka = noble one's disciple. One who hears/learns the teachings of a noble one, but is not necessarily a noble one themself.

I’ve only ever seen ariya-savaka contrasted against ordinary person uneducated (puthujjano), not against an-ariya-savaka (un-noble disciple).
Digital search for “Ariyasāvak” turns up over 200 results,
while searching for “unariyasāvak” returns 0.

MN 22.10 uneducated ordinary person

Idha, bhikkhave, assutavā puthujjano ariyānaṃ adassāvī ariyadhammassa akovido ariyadhamme avinīto, sappurisānaṃ adassāvī sappurisadhammassa akovido sappurisadhamme avinīto,
Take an uneducated ordinary person who has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in The Dharma of the noble ones. They’ve not seen good persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in The Dharma of the good persons.

educated noble one’s disciple

Sutavā ca kho, bhikkhave, ariyasāvako ariyānaṃ dassāvī ariyadhammassa kovido ariyadhamme suvinīto, sappurisānaṃ dassāvī sappurisadhammassa kovido sappurisadhamme suvinīto,
But an educated noble-one's-disciple has seen the noble ones, and is skilled and trained in The Dharma of the noble ones. They’ve seen good persons, and are skilled and trained in The Dharma of the good persons.



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lucid24-frankk


https://www.reddit.com/r/EarlyBuddhistTexts/comments/1clf0xt/comment/l3eizsz/


both bodhi and sujato basically make that disclaimer [that 'ariya savaka' doesn't always mean an enlightened being], but AFAIK always translate ariya savaka as "noble disciple".

what do they THINK people are going to interpret when they see "noble disciple"?

That's like me saying, "Oh, when I say someone is an 'idiot'" it doesn't always mean they're stupid or a fool. They could also be a genius.

In all the posts I've made pointing out situations where it's obviously ariya savaka is not a 'noble disciple', a number of people have made hostile replies defending 'noble disciple' interpretation, all because they understood the English phrase to mean what it looks like it means.

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