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Seeming contradiction between MN 36 and MN 20 use of 'mind crushing mind' to stop thoughts

 

Re: Contradictions in the Pali canon

Post by frank k » 

Wetere wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:53 am
frank k wrote:A mind and body under that pressure is never going to be able to enter a jhana samadhi.
The first passage agrees with this since the Buddha condemns and abandons these austerities for the pursuit of the jhanas under the tree, but the second passage doesn't agree because these austerities do in fact steady, settle, unifies, and concentrates the mind.
...

Ok, I see your point regarding MN 20. You are right, that is either a contradiction, or the sutta is wrong if we take it word for word literally. Mind crushing mind will not lead to second jhana, or even first jhana, because they mind and body will be tense.

Most of the other relevant sutta passages, such as in 7 awakening factors, and MN 19, explain that without passaddhi (pacification/relaxation) one will not be able to enter 4 jhanas samadhi.

Occasionally, you'll run into contradictions elsewhere in the suttas similar to this.

In reality, this is just an accidental artifact of how oral tradition teaching methods work. Here in this translation with all repetitions expanded out, you'll see that the 'entering second jhana' clause is just boilerplate repetition to all 5 methods.
http://lucid24.org/mn/mn020/index.html#flink-10


It's because it's much easier to memorize something that follows a formula, than if you have to give special instructions to explain special cases where some items in a list don't exactly fit the pattern as the rest of the list.

In the case of MN 20 though, there is a way to interpret #5 without being a contradiction. If one does enter jhana samadhi after using mind crushing mind to stop thoughts, then one would first have to relax the body and mind for an unspecified period of time. Notice the sutta never says that one immediately enters the samadhi, so it's implied for all 5 cases.

Good job reading all passages carefully and thinking it through though.


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