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B. Sujato mumbling incoherently: MN 44 vitakka & vicara


MN 44 (b.sujato trans.)

“Breathing is physical. It’s tied up with the body, that’s why breathing is a physical process.“Assāsapassāsā kho, āvuso visākha, kāyikā ete dhammā kāyappaṭibaddhā, tasmāassāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro. 

First you place the mind and keep it connected, then you break into speech. That’s why placing the mind and keeping it connected are verbal processes. Pubbe kho, āvuso visākha, vitakketvāvicāretvā pacchā vācaṃ bhindati, tasmā vitakka-vicārā vacī-saṅkhāro. 

Perception and feeling are mental. They’re tied up with the mind, that’s why perception and feeling are mental processes.” Saññā ca vedanā ca cetasikā ete dhammā cittappaṭibaddhā,tasmā saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāro”ti.


This is what vocalized speech sounds like

from someone doing B. Sujato's vitakka & vicara  




But that is clearly not the kind of speech-fabrication (vitakka & vicara)  used in other suttas in relevant contexts:

For example, in this sutta that discusses ways to ward off drowsiness while doing samadhi, V&V number 2, obviously is referring to coherent mental recitation of Dharma teachings, and not the incoherent mumbling of B. Sujato:

AN 7.61 Pacalāyana

“tasmātiha, moggallāna,
“Well then, Moggallana,
yathā-saññissa te viharato
whatever-perception you dwelt-in (when)
taṃ middhaṃ okkamati,
that drowsiness descends (on you),
taṃ saññaṃ mā manasā-kāsi,
that perception {you should} not give-attention (to),
taṃ saññaṃ mā bahulama-kāsi.
that perception {you should} not abundantly-pursue,
ṭhānaṃ kho panetaṃ, moggallāna, vijjati yaṃ te evaṃ viharato
It’s possible that by doing this
taṃ middhaṃ pahīyetha.
that drowsiness (is) removed. "
♦ “no ce te evaṃ viharato
“But if by doing this
taṃ middhaṃ pahīyetha,
That drowsiness (is) {not} removed,
tato tvaṃ, moggallāna,
Then ****, *********,
yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
{with the Dhamma} as-heard (and) as-memorized *******,
cetasā anu-vitakkeyyāsi anu-vicāreyyāsi,
mentally re-think (and) re-examine (that),
manasā an-upekkheyyāsi.
(in your) mind consider-it-carefully.
ṭhānaṃ kho panetaṃ vijjati yaṃ te evaṃ viharato
"It’s possible that by doing this
taṃ middhaṃ pahīyetha.
that drowsiness (is) removed. "
♦ “no ce te evaṃ viharato
“But if by doing this
taṃ middhaṃ pahīyetha,
That drowsiness (is) {not} removed,
tato tvaṃ, moggallāna,
Then ****, *********,
yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
{with the Dhamma} as-heard (and) as-memorized *******,
vitthārena sajjhāyaṃ kareyyāsi.
(in) detail recite-it-aloud; you-should-do-that.
ṭhānaṃ kho panetaṃ vijjati yaṃ te evaṃ viharato
"It’s possible that by doing this
taṃ middhaṃ pahīyetha.
that drowsiness (is) removed. "
♦ “no ce te evaṃ viharato
“But if by doing this
taṃ middhaṃ pahīyetha,
That drowsiness (is) {not} removed,
tato tvaṃ, moggallāna,
Then ****, *********,
ubho kaṇṇa-sotāni āviñcheyyāsi,
pull both your earlobes and
pāṇinā gattāni anumajjeyyāsi.
rub your limbs with your hands.
ṭhānaṃ kho panetaṃ vijjati yaṃ te evaṃ viharato
"It’s possible that by doing this
taṃ middhaṃ pahīyetha.
that drowsiness (is) removed. "

And again, in AN 5.26

it just doesn't work if V&V is the incoherent B. Sujato style of mumbling vocalization

AN 5.26 vimutt-āyatana-suttaṃ
AN 5.26 liberation-base-discourse
“pañc-imāni, bhikkhave,
"[there are] five-(of)-these, ***********,
vimutt-āyatanāni
liberation-bases,
yattha bhikkhuno appamattassa
by means of which, if a monk {dwells} assiduous,
ātāpino pahitattassa viharato
ardent, resolute, ********,
a-vimuttaṃ vā cittaṃ vimuccati,
(his) un-liberated ** mind (is) liberated,
a-parik-khīṇā vā āsavā parik-khayaṃ gacchanti,
un-destroyed ** asinine-inclinations, utterly-destroyed (they) become.
An-anuppattaṃ vā an-uttaraṃ yogak-khemaṃ
(the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
Anu-pāpuṇāti.
(he) reaches.”
♦ “katamāni pañca?
What five?
idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
Here, monks, (for a) monk,
satthā dhammaṃ deseti
(a) teacher (of) dhamma teaches (him),
aññataro vā garuṭṭhāniyo sabrahmacārī.
{or a} certain fellow monk [teaches him],
yathā yathā, bhikkhave, tassa bhikkhuno
in whatever way , *********, (for the) monk (that)
satthā dhammaṃ deseti
(a) teacher (of) dhamma teaches (him),
aññataro vā garuṭṭhāniyo sabrahmacārī.
{or a} certain fellow monk [teaches him],

(refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship)

tathā tathā so tasmiṃ
like-that, accordingly, he ******
dhamme attha-paṭisaṃvedī ca hoti
{feels [inspiration]} in Dhamma meaning and
dhamma-paṭisaṃvedī ca.
{feels [inspiration]} in Dhamma,
tassa attha-paṭisaṃvedino dhamma-paṭisaṃvedino
as he {feels [inspiration] in} Dhamma-meaning (and) Dhamma,
pāmojjaṃ jāyati.
joy arises.
pamuditassa pīti jāyati.
(When he is) joyful, rapture arises.
pīti-manassa kāyo passambhati.
(with) rapturous-mind, (the) body (becomes) tranquil.
passaddha-kāyo sukhaṃ vedeti.
(with) tranquil-body, pleasure (he) feels.
sukhino cittaṃ samādhiyati.
(For one feeling) pleasure, (the) mind (becomes) concentrated.
idaṃ, bhikkhave, paṭhamaṃ vimutt-āyatanaṃ
This, monks, (is the) first liberation-basis,
yattha bhikkhuno appamattassa
by means of which, if a monk {dwells} assiduous,
ātāpino pahitattassa viharato
ardent, resolute, ********,
a-vimuttaṃ vā cittaṃ vimuccati,
(his) un-liberated ** mind (is) liberated,
a-parik-khīṇā vā āsavā parik-khayaṃ gacchanti,
un-destroyed ** asinine-inclinations, utterly-destroyed (they) become.
An-anuppattaṃ vā an-uttaraṃ yogak-khemaṃ
(the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
Anu-pāpuṇāti.
(he) reaches.”
♦ “puna ca-paraṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
“Again, and-furthermore,
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
yathā yathā, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
in whatever way, **********, the monk
yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
vitthārena paresaṃ deseti
(and in) detail (to) others (he) teaches,

(refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship)

tathā tathā so tasmiṃ
like-that, accordingly, he ******
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
An-anuppattaṃ vā an-uttaraṃ yogak-khemaṃ
(the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
Anu-pāpuṇāti.
(he) reaches.”
♦ “puna ca-paraṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
“Again, and-furthermore,
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
yathā yathā, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
in whatever way, **********, the monk
yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
vitthārena sajjhāyaṃ karoti
(and in) detail (he) recites (that) ******.

(refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship)

tathā tathā so tasmiṃ
like-that, accordingly, he ******
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
An-anuppattaṃ vā an-uttaraṃ yogak-khemaṃ
(the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
Anu-pāpuṇāti.
(he) reaches.”
♦ “puna ca-paraṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
“Again, and-furthermore,
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
yathā yathā, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
in whatever way, **********, the monk
yathā-sutaṃ yathā-pariyattaṃ dhammaṃ
Has-heard (and) has-learned (the) dhamma
cetasā anu-vitakketi anu-vicāreti
(and) mentally (he) ponders (and) examines
Manas-ān-upekkhati
(and his mind) carefully-inspects (that)

(refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship)

tathā tathā so tasmiṃ
like-that, accordingly, he ******
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
An-anuppattaṃ vā an-uttaraṃ yogak-khemaṃ
(the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
Anu-pāpuṇāti.
(he) reaches.”
♦ “puna ca-paraṃ, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno
“Again, and-furthermore,
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
(...instead of using the previous methods described…)
api ca khvassa
but he has
aññataraṃ samādhi-nimittaṃ sug-gahitaṃ hoti
(a) certain concentration-sign well-grapsped ****,
su-manasi-kataṃ s-ūpadhāritaṃ sup-paṭividdhaṃ paññāya
well-attended-to, well-sustained, well-penetrated (with) wisdom

(refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship)

tathā tathā so tasmiṃ
like-that, accordingly, he ******
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
(… refrain: 7sb → jhāna → arahantship ... )
An-anuppattaṃ vā an-uttaraṃ yogak-khemaṃ
(the) un-reached un-surpassed security-from-the-yoke
Anu-pāpuṇāti.
(he) reaches.”


Comments

  1. I shudder to think about the kamma that Sujato is incurring, by influencing untold numbers of practitioners with his translation.

    ReplyDelete

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